[Misc] JFK Assassination 59 years on

[Deportivo Seagull]

Obviously NASA had like 10 000 employees or something at the time, but it doesn't make everyone involved in the actual event itself. Similar to how Brighton might have 500-600 employees but not all of them are on the pitch every game.

Sorry but the analogy doesn’t work.

NASA would have had to have designed and built the various bits of kit, trained astronaughts, mission controllers etc, flown to the moon and then simply not bothered. This is the minimum because we know that the Russians followed the flight of Apollo 11 and every pre and post space flight closely, as did a number of other countrie. So the conspiracy can only be regards once at the moon, the lunar module didn’t land. Again the question would be why because this would have been blatantly obvious to those in mission control, which had cameras from every major news company in the US and a number from around the world. They would have also needed to be in on the conspiracy.

The final point is why NASA then ran subsequent missions to the moon. Why?

Now it’s your turn to provide a rationale for the conspiracy using logic rather than bollocks.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Obviously NASA had like 10 000 employees or something at the time, but it doesn't make everyone involved in the actual event itself. Similar to how Brighton might have 500-600 employees but not all of them are on the pitch every game.

Okay. So did the Apollo rocket actually launch with Buzz, Neil and Mike on board, or was that faked? If it launched, did they just orbit for 8 days, NASA stages the whole landing sequence with actors on a stage set, then those 3 return to Earth after 8 days of orbiting? If that was the case, then 2 mission controls would have been required - one for the show of the fake landing, one for the covert mission in orbit. Then they had to fake all the moon samples, rocks and stuff as well. On the ground you have the entire fake set, the broadcasting of that and the coordination of that side of the plot as well.

Of course before landing on the moon, did they also fake Apollo 8 & 10 orbiting the moon, was Apollo 9 docking with the LCM and all faked too? You'd have thought the conspiracy would have unraveled after the Apollo 1 fire, so the conspiracy is huge, spanning years involving a huge number of people.

I've seen a read a fair few theories about the landings being faked, or refuting evidence from the landings such as shadows, flags, footprints, reflections and whatever else, but none really that provide any tangible theory as to how they actually carried out this gigantic scale successful fake, and one that has stood as accepted truth for over 50 years.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Sorry but the analogy doesn’t work.

NASA would have had to have designed and built the various bits of kit, trained astronaughts, mission controllers etc, flown to the moon and then simply not bothered. This is the minimum because we know that the Russians followed the flight of Apollo 11 and every pre and post space flight closely, as did a number of other countrie. So the conspiracy can only be regards once at the moon, the lunar module didn’t land. Again the question would be why because this would have been blatantly obvious to those in mission control, which had cameras from every major news company in the US and a number from around the world. They would have also needed to be in on the conspiracy.

The final point is why NASA then ran subsequent missions to the moon. Why?

Now it’s your turn to provide a rationale for the conspiracy using logic rather than bollocks.

When things went wrong on Apollo 13, the Russians offered to help.

 

[The Clamp]

Nope

Talking about the moon-landing right? (not sure that - if it happened - landing on some dusty shitehole is the biggest event in the history). Not sure more than a couple of hundred people needed to know at the time and a further couple of hundred at any given time afterwards - not difficult to keep secret, and not difficult to control the people involved, making sure they either stay quiet or does not get any recognition for claims they may have.

You don’t believe people can consume conventional media/news and not believe every word of it?

Just because someone doesn’t believe in conspiracy theories, that doesn’t mean they buy everything they are told by mainstream media.

Come off it, I know you’re not that dumb.

 

[Hugo Rune]

I've seen a read a fair few theories about the landings being faked, or refuting evidence from the landings such as shadows, flags, footprints, reflections and whatever else, but none really that provide any tangible theory as to how they actually carried out this gigantic scale successful fake, and one that has stood as accepted truth for over 50 years.

I suspect that Swanny does not do the original thinking on this himself, he’ll just point you in the direction of his conspiracy theory guru, Kaysing. I’ll save him the trouble:

Kaysing states that:

The astronauts were launched with the Saturn V. Then, in order to account for their disappearance, they simply orbited the Earth for eight days and in the interim they showed these fake pictures of the astronauts on the Moon. But on the eighth day the command console separated from the vehicle and descended to Earth as, of course, was shown in the films. Wiki

Kaysing got very technical with the sort of rockets used for the launch, I’m not sure why as it does not appear to change the conspiracy theory narrative much? Anyway, in 2013 Jeff Besos decided to recover bits of the rockets (Rocketdyne F-1 engines, the ones that boost you to the moon) from the original Apollo mission that Kaysing said were not used. He was successful.

Kaysing sold a lot of books and made a lot of money from this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but perhaps that’s why he wrote the book rather than believing any of the shit he was writing?

 

[Zeberdi]

Okay. So did the Apollo rocket actually launch with Buzz, Neil and Mike on board, or was that faked? If it launched, did they just orbit for 8 days, NASA stages the whole landing sequence with actors on a stage set, then those 3 return to Earth after 8 days of orbiting? If that was the case, then 2 mission controls would have been required - one for the show of the fake landing, one for the covert mission in orbit. Then they had to fake all the moon samples, rocks and stuff as well. On the ground you have the entire fake set, the broadcasting of that and the coordination of that side of the plot as well.

Of course before landing on the moon, did they also fake Apollo 8 & 10 orbiting the moon, was Apollo 9 docking with the LCM and all faked too? You'd have thought the conspiracy would have unraveled after the Apollo 1 fire, so the conspiracy is huge, spanning years involving a huge number of people.

I've seen a read a fair few theories about the landings being faked, or refuting evidence from the landings such as shadows, flags, footprints, reflections and whatever else, but none really that provide any tangible theory as to how they actually carried out this gigantic scale successful fake, and one that has stood as accepted truth for over 50 years.

… and does the moon even really exist

Fake moon landings have to be up there with invasion of the body snatchers or hollow Earth with aliens/people living in the core

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

I suspect that Swanny does not do the original thinking on this himself, he’ll just point you in the direction of his conspiracy theory guru, Kaysing. I’ll save him the trouble:

Kaysing states that:



Kaysing got very technical with the sort of rockets used for the launch, I’m not sure why as it does not appear to change the conspiracy theory narrative much? Anyway, in 2013 Jeff Besos decided to recover bits of the rockets (Rocketdyne F-1 engines, the ones that boost you to the moon) from the original Apollo mission that Kaysing said were not used. He was successful.

Kaysing sold a lot of books and made a lot of money from this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but perhaps that’s why he wrote the book rather than believing any of the shit he was writing?

As I posted earlier he had what looks suspiciously like a mental breakdown and then basically went on walkabout for a year, on his return he started spouting his theories … made himself rich though.

 

[Hugo Rune]

As I posted earlier he had what looks suspiciously like a mental breakdown and then basically went on walkabout for a year, on his return he started spouting his theories … made himself rich though.

Worked in a rocket factory too, I wonder if he fell out with his employers for fast tracking rocket development? They may well have ignored a lot of H&S, regular development time frames and testing standards/regimes/protocols in order to meet the ambitious deadlines? His theory is based on the fact he didn’t think the rocket he was working on would be up to scratch. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I sniff a disgruntled employee!

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Worked in a rocket factory too, I wonder if he fell out with his employers for fast tracking rocket development? They may well have ignored a lot of H&S, regular development time frames and testing standards/regimes/protocols in order to meet the ambitious deadlines? His theory is based on the fact he didn’t think the rocket he was working on would be up to scratch. Call me a conspiracy theorist but I sniff a disgruntled employee!

More than likely.
His wiki page state his degree was in English and that he was a technical writer and so not an engineer. To be on the space programme as an engineer you would need an engineering degree. I would argue that his technical knowledge would not have been sufficient to question the technical validity of the designs …..

 

[Zeberdi]

With the age of the universe and what we know/suspect of how life began on earth it's almost certain intelligent life has existed many times over in the universe. The probability of that intelligent life cooexisting at the same moment in time across those many billions of years is however very small. Homo sapiens have existed for less than one twentieth of one percent of the time earth has.

You’re equating ‘intelligent’ life forms with humanity* - animals also have cognitive skills and learning capabilities - and if we are really discussing alien life forms, we probably should include advanced forms of AI too. But certainly agree with your point on probability.

*One might be forgiven for thinking this may anyway be a false premise if some of the posts on NSC are anything to go by ‘

 

[Swansman]

I suspect that Swanny does not do the original thinking on this himself, he’ll just point you in the direction of his conspiracy theory guru, Kaysing. I’ll save him the trouble:

Kaysing states that:



Kaysing got very technical with the sort of rockets used for the launch, I’m not sure why as it does not appear to change the conspiracy theory narrative much? Anyway, in 2013 Jeff Besos decided to recover bits of the rockets (Rocketdyne F-1 engines, the ones that boost you to the moon) from the original Apollo mission that Kaysing said were not used. He was successful.

Kaysing sold a lot of books and made a lot of money from this. Call me a conspiracy theorist but perhaps that’s why he wrote the book rather than believing any of the shit he was writing?

Kaysing is not my conspiracy theory guru - Huxley is. Huxley in combination with living in a country which is entirely in the possession of one of the biggest spiders in the global web.

He probably sold a lot of books yes. I suppose your all about the money-claim can be made about anyone selling lots of books, or doing something else for a living, then.

 

[The Clamp]

There's only one way to put this debate to bed once and for all and that's to get Buzz Aldrin on Would I Lie To You?

 

[Swansman]

There's only one way to put this debate to bed once and for all and that's to get Buzz Aldrin on Would I Lie To You?

Dunno what it is but I'm all for it.

Not exactly sure how we landed (eh..he...he) on moon landings. Personally I don't think the subject is that interesting or important compared to whatever the f*** is going on down here. Hollywood Studio or real deal or a cover-up for the species of alien goats currently running the moon... any of it really doesn't matter all that much.

As a conspiracy theorist, conspiracy theories are often interesting... obviously. But the moon and Paul McCartney and shit that has little to none impact on love & laughter and the future of love & laughter... is all a bit meh.

 

[pastafarian]

Okay. So did the Apollo rocket actually launch with Buzz, Neil and Mike on board, or was that faked? If it launched, did they just orbit for 8 days, NASA stages the whole landing sequence with actors on a stage set, then those 3 return to Earth after 8 days of orbiting? If that was the case, then 2 mission controls would have been required - one for the show of the fake landing, one for the covert mission in orbit. Then they had to fake all the moon samples, rocks and stuff as well. On the ground you have the entire fake set, the broadcasting of that and the coordination of that side of the plot as well.

Of course before landing on the moon, did they also fake Apollo 8 & 10 orbiting the moon, was Apollo 9 docking with the LCM and all faked too? You'd have thought the conspiracy would have unraveled after the Apollo 1 fire, so the conspiracy is huge, spanning years involving a huge number of people.

I've seen a read a fair few theories about the landings being faked, or refuting evidence from the landings such as shadows, flags, footprints, reflections and whatever else, but none really that provide any tangible theory as to how they actually carried out this gigantic scale successful fake, and one that has stood as accepted truth for over 50 years.

Um
There was no orbit of the earth at all. They simply went straight up, hid inside the secret invisible shadow object ( the one that causes a lunar eclipse) and came straight back down later when the coast was clear.
The earth is flat and the moon is a projection.
Do your own research on this.

 

[Beach Hut]

Dunno what it is but I'm all for it.

Not exactly sure how we landed (eh..he...he) on moon landings. Personally I don't think the subject is that interesting or important compared to whatever the f*** is going on down here. Hollywood Studio or real deal or a cover-up for the species of alien goats currently running the moon... any of it really doesn't matter all that much.

As a conspiracy theorist, conspiracy theories are often interesting... obviously. But the moon and Paul McCartney and shit that has little to none impact on love & laughter and the future of love & laughter... l is all a bit meh.

If only Potter had never come to BHAFC we would never have had to put up with your utter sh1te.

Just f*** off once and for all and head to CFC message boards.

 

[Swansman]

If only Potter had never come to BHAFC we would never have had to put up with your utter sh1te.

Just f*** off once and for all and head to CFC message boards.

Yeah and if it wasn't for the creation of the planet we would never have to put up with you either but it is what it is.

 

[BenGarfield]

Nope, not a weak argument. The "x hundred or x thousand people can't keep a secret" is a bad one, however. There's quite a number of occasions where thousands of people must have been aware of something, yet it took very long time for it to be revealed to the public. And there's surely instances where there isn't one or two brave persons among those thousands of people to reveal what really happened.

Indeed, as was the case with the code breaking centre at Bletchley Park during WW2 which was kept secret until fairly recently.

 

[beorhthelm]

Indeed, as was the case with the code breaking centre at Bletchley Park during WW2 which was kept secret until fairly recently.

there were stories and books about Bletchly Park in the 70's, 30 yrs after the war, Colossus was in text books in the early 90's. the secrecy is exaggerated in programmes about it. here we are 50yrs on from moon landing and no one working on it have claimed fakery, no Russian KGB leak of doubts.

 

[Zeberdi]

There’s a big difference between something real but was shrouded in secrecy for valid security purposes while the World was at war and something that was was not shrouded in secrecy but was overwhelmingly and universally accepted as happened based on evidence and global witnesses. It’s utterly illogical to use the former to add weight to a charge of conspiracy against the latter!

 

[Hugo Rune]

Kaysing is not my conspiracy theory guru - Huxley is. Huxley in combination with living in a country which is entirely in the possession of one of the biggest spiders in the global web.

He probably sold a lot of books yes. I suppose your all about the money-claim can be made about anyone selling lots of books, or doing something else for a living, then.

No.

On reflection, I think he was a disgruntled employee at Rocketdyne and perhaps wrote his first conspiracy theory out of spite. I think that American instinct of money soon kicked in after he got some interest and his shit-4-money scheme took off. This is an interesting read but way too mainstream for you:

One giant ... lie? Why so many people still think the moon landings were faked | The moon | The Guardian

It all started with a man called Bill Kaysing and his pamphlet about ‘America’s $30bn swindle’ ...

amp.theguardian.com

With conspiracy theory nut Trump taking the President role in the U.S, you’d think he’d have proved many conspiracy theories right as he rifled through the top secret service archives in his Mar-a-Lago holiday resort but all he achieved was making the U.S admit that it can’t explain about 3% of UAPs and are not ruling our extra terrestrials. There was no Roswell landing, no Alien abductions, no U.S collusion with E.T.

But Trump did change one thing about conspiracy theorists, he changed their image. No longer nerdy paranoid teenagers but fat thick-as-shit, racist redneck Americans who take their information from anyone off the Internet rather than academics. The Maga tribe. These ****ers will believe anything. The big conspiracy in America is that their last election was a fraud. That has enormous consequences.

We know you’re better than that though. Conspiracy theories are meant to make people hateful, angry, nervous and paranoid but it seems they make you very happy. If that is the case, you are on the righteous path my son.