Jeremy Corbyn.

[Fitzcarraldo]

True, however Corbyn is a Bennite in old money and ergo a Eurosceptic.

He rebelled in the vote for the Lisbon Treaty and has been a long time critic of the EU's austerity programme, particularly in Greece.

He may well lose his nerve in being so critical of the EU IF he becomes leader, however it's been interesting that in speeches he recognises the gains made by UKIP in traditional Labour seats.

I think whatever happens in the leadership campaign Corbyn will be influential, ergo, political infighting over Europe may no longer be just the preserve of the Tories.........

I would have thought Corbyn previously being a Eurosceptic would endear him to the EU obsessed ex-Labour UKIP voters as a Labour Leader who had actually thought about, and considered, Britain's membership of the EU. Not just blindly accepted it as a good thing. They are a chunk of the electorate that Labour definitely needs to reach out to.

I understand politics is more black and white than that and critics will jump on him for having the temerity to change his mind though.

 

[cunning fergus]

As for nationalisation how do other countries do it? Hamburg is renationalising their grid. Maybe Corbyn will use the exact same method as them?

That's a fair point, however is it not municipalisation as oppose to nationalisation?

I don't know enough about it but my understanding is that a lot of energy companies in Europe are being subsidised and if the subsidy is not available (or reduced) they are exiting the market.........it's not like E.on is going to be re-nationalised by the German state?

The point with Corbyn is he supports the reintroduction of the old clause IV which would actively promote public ownership of utilities, transport etc.

As someone who is all for that reintroduction, it would clearly place a Corbyn led Labour Party (if they won an election) on a collision course with Brussels.

Corbyn has long been a critic of privatisation, his speeches about the forced privatisation of Greek state assets prove that, and are evidence of his political objectives.

He has been even more critical of the TTIP agreement which could force the NHS to tender services...........he will have to choose then, (as will we all) really whether he supports UK membership of the EU.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

That's a fair point, however is it not municipalisation as oppose to nationalisation?

I don't know enough about it but my understanding is that a lot of energy companies in Europe are being subsidised and if the subsidy is not available (or reduced) they are exiting the market.........it's not like E.on is going to be re-nationalised by the German state?

But this will resonate with a public that see the privatisation of certain utility services like energy as an exercise in monetising them for profit and ripping people off. I am not sure the private companies have won over the public enough for people to be up in arms if it is reversed and any profit goes back into the system. They will be run by private companies whatever its just about how much is paid and milked off by shareholders, or paid to the government.

 

[glasfryn]

seems like the more tories that are joining the Labour party just to vote for JC the more popular he becomes, and maybe those who voted tory last time are realising what a bunch of schoolboys they are
keep it up lads and don't forget all those £3's are going into the labour party coffers

 

[8ace]

Louise Mensch - what a stupid f*cking slag

 

[cunning fergus]

But this will resonate with a public that see the privatisation of certain utility services like energy as an exercise in monetising them for profit and ripping people off. I am not sure the private companies have won over the public enough for people to be up in arms if it is reversed and any profit goes back into the system. They will be run by private companies whatever its just about how much is paid and milked off by shareholders, or paid to the government.

I agree, however that still leaves the question of EU competition law which is a cornerstone of EU doctrine and essentially requires "services" to be available to companies across the EU to perform.

Take rail and transport services for example......

http://ec.europa.eu/transport/modes/rail/market/index_en.htm

This is the scale of the challenge that would face Corbyn if elected with regard to re-nationalising the rail.

If the current democratically elected British PM cannot stop people from other countries moving here because of EU laws on freedom of movement,why would anyone think another future PM be able to circumvent the EU's equally important competition laws?

It's little wonder the pro EU blue labour Blairites are gunning for him, they know what is at risk...............they may have got Labour into power, but they were no socialists.

 

[Vegas Seagull]

seems like the more tories that are joining the Labour party just to vote for JC the more popular he becomes, and maybe those who voted tory last time are realising what a bunch of schoolboys they are
keep it up lads and don't forget all those £3's are going into the labour party coffers

The date has closed & it's importance is being vastly overstated. JC is going to win by 50,000 so the other candidates trying to excuse their defeat on a few hundred or thousand 'intruders' is irrelevant and simply highlighting their shame at how they have failed from being favourites at the campaign launch
Like the chicken farmers blaming the ref @ 5pm

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

That's a fair point, however is it not municipalisation as oppose to nationalisation?

I don't know enough about it but my understanding is that a lot of energy companies in Europe are being subsidised and if the subsidy is not available (or reduced) they are exiting the market.........it's not like E.on is going to be re-nationalised by the German state?

The point with Corbyn is he supports the reintroduction of the old clause IV which would actively promote public ownership of utilities, transport etc.

As someone who is all for that reintroduction, it would clearly place a Corbyn led Labour Party (if they won an election) on a collision course with Brussels.

Corbyn has long been a critic of privatisation, his speeches about the forced privatisation of Greek state assets prove that, and are evidence of his political objectives.

He has been even more critical of the TTIP agreement which could force the NHS to tender services...........he will have to choose then, (as will we all) really whether he supports UK membership of the EU.

The Hamburg example is an example of a utility moving from private to state ownership. Does it matter that the business doesn't span the entire country? If it does then maybe a way around your perceived EU issue is to stop the trains just short of, say, Brighton? After all they pretty much do this every other Saturday anyway.

Also. We enjoy a state owned railway in the Fatherland. Why doesn't this fall foul of EU law?

 

[cunning fergus]

The Hamburg example is an example of a utility moving from private to state ownership. Does it matter that the business doesn't span the entire country? If it does then maybe a way around your perceived EU issue is to stop the trains just short of, say, Brighton? After all they pretty much do this every other Saturday anyway.

Also. We enjoy a state owned railway in the Fatherland. Why doesn't this fall foul of EU law?

You may be right, and possibly it's a way to renationalise more broadly, however, as I understood it energy companies were seeking to exit certain markets across the EU due to subsidy issues.........like I said I don't know.

As for DB, I don't think it's state owned in a conventional sense, whilst the state is the majority share holding it is run like a commercial enterprise, which is why it owns Arriva, which it uses to bid for services here.

Which is why the RMT Union is pissed off with the EU.......

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/transport-union-to-campaign-for-exit-from-pro-austerity-eu/

Whose side are you own?

 

[glasfryn]

The date has closed & it's importance is being vastly overstated. JC is going to win by 50,000 so the other candidates trying to excuse their defeat on a few hundred or thousand 'intruders' is irrelevant and simply highlighting their shame at how they have failed from being favourites at the campaign launch
Like the chicken farmers blaming the ref @ 5pm

I saw last night that even a tory lord registered to vote

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

You may be right, and possibly it's a way to renationalise more broadly, however, as I understood it energy companies were seeking to exit certain markets across the EU due to subsidy issues.........like I said I don't know.

As for DB, I don't think it's state owned in a conventional sense, whilst the state is the majority share holding it is run like a commercial enterprise, which is why it owns Arriva, which it uses to bid for services here.

Which is why the RMT Union is pissed off with the EU.......

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/transport-union-to-campaign-for-exit-from-pro-austerity-eu/

Whose side are you own?

It depends what you mean by "conventional sense." Conventional as in what you have been exposed to? As I understand it it's a GmbH with a single share. This single share is owned by the state. Whilst this is a different structure to what we are used to, DB is none the less state owned. Maybe this is why it works so well and is do cheap?

Whose side am I on? That of the international worker and his rights.....the employment rights enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty that is.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The Telegraph is not even being subtle anymore. Well and truly shitting itself.

Corbyn Must Be Stopped

...but of course, it's writing articles like this in the best interests of the Labour party, honest.

Weren't they instructing their readers to vote for him the other week? I'm confused.

 

[Kevlar]

the conservatives supporting Corbyn are not of the thatcherite mold.
She said her greatest achievement was new labour and tony blair.
It's easy to see why .She represented rich people and did not want
to risk a government being elected that poor people before rich people.
Its not just new labour its social democrats across europe who abandoned representing the poor.
They are like the pigs in Orwell's Animal Farm.
They started out 4 legs good 2 legs bad.
Now its 4 legs good 2 properties better.
The sooner the sell outs of labour and social democrats across Europe stop representing poorer people the better.
The irony is it is the legacy of thatcher and Reagons failure of trickle down economics
which may well doom new labour as the global race to the bottom in wages and working conditions
allied to deregulated parasitical financial sector has paralysed the worlds economy.
Interestingly the only company whose stock rose on the FTSE yesterday was the royal mail.
The cynical corruption of governments by the wealthy has turned the hopes of the Keynesian
Post War settlement between rich and poor to dust.
I didnt register to vote for Corbyn because i haven't considered myself a labour supporter for a long time
but if Corbyn wins this is one vote coming back to labour i might even join the party.

 

[W.C.]

Louise Mensch - what a stupid f*cking slag

Very funny that. The stupid bitch.

 

[cunning fergus]

It depends what you mean by "conventional sense." Conventional as in what you have been exposed to? As I understand it it's a GmbH with a single share. This single share is owned by the state. Whilst this is a different structure to what we are used to, DB is none the less state owned. Maybe this is why it works so well and is do cheap?

Whose side am I on? That of the international worker and his rights.....the employment rights enshrined in the Lisbon Treaty that is.

Nein, It is DB AG.

http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/group/ataglance/

It has an investors page, annual reports exactly as any other listed company in Germany would do, although I think it's the subsidiaries like Arriva that you could get shares in. DB AG is maybe like an unlisted holding company.

Without any doubt the influence of the state is represented so that is why fares may be cheap and service efficient. Replicating this in the UK could be possible but would mean the UK Govt taking on the likes of DB AG to withdraw their right to operate in the UK.

This is the essential point about the competition laws, DB AG would point to the EU competition law, and the UK would be immediately on a loser.

That is why I am with the RMT and their support for British workers and how British workers interests are undermined by the Lisbon Treaty, not protected.

Which is also a fundamental reason why the likes of Jeremy Corbyn voted against it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Nein, It is DB AG.

http://www.deutschebahn.com/en/group/ataglance/

It has an investors page, annual reports exactly as any other listed company in Germany would do, although I think it's the subsidiaries like Arriva that you could get shares in. DB AG is maybe like an unlisted holding company.

Without any doubt the influence of the state is represented so that is why fares may be cheap and service efficient. Replicating this in the UK could be possible but would mean the UK Govt taking on the likes of DB AG to withdraw their right to operate in the UK.

This is the essential point about the competition laws, DB AG would point to the EU competition law, and the UK would be immediately on a loser.

That is why I am with the RMT and their support for British workers and how British workers interests are undermined by the Lisbon Treaty, not protected.

Which is also a fundamental reason why the likes of Jeremy Corbyn voted against it.

But as I have pointed out with a couple of examples, there are numerous nationalized industries all across the EU, some brought back into public ownership as well. How come none of these fall foul of the EU competition rules?

My take is that if other countries can do it, like Germany seem to be able to, then so can the UK. Whatever it is that Germany did with the electricity in Hamburg, and their railways in general, to bring about public ownership we can surely do the same.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

British workers interests are undermined by the Lisbon Treaty, not protected..

We agree on something. UK workers are of course not fully protected by the Lisbon Treaty due to the various employment law opt-outs from UK governments. Scandalous.

 

[cunning fergus]

But as I have pointed out with a couple of examples, there are numerous nationalized industries all across the EU, some brought back into public ownership as well. How come none of these fall foul of the EU competition rules?

My take is that if other countries can do it, like Germany seem to be able to, then so can the UK. Whatever it is that Germany did with the electricity in Hamburg, and their railways in general, to bring about public ownership we can surely do the same.

If we Ignore the technicalities, can i take it we would both be happy to re-nationalise E.on and EDF in the UK? Doing so in your view would not have absolutely nothing to do with EU competition law?

I am for it by the way, just for clarity..........lets get our views out in the open.

As for your point about the Lisbon Treaty protecting workers rights in the EU, how is that working in Spain (by way of example) with their auto workers taking a 40% pay cut, and working on basic zero hour contracts.

Seriously, why is a leftist Eurosceptic party like Podomos now the second biggest political party in Spain...................what is it you know that they don't?

 

[BLOCK F]

Can't think why some people believe renationalising the power and rail services at a huge cost would lead to better services.
Think you are kidding yourselves.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

"Jeremy Corbyn wins economists’ backing for anti-austerity policies"

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...s-backing-anti-austerity-policies-corbynomics