Jeremy Corbyn.

[Hastings gull]

I'm sorry, I find your comment a little odd. Of course his victory was orchestrated by his supporters. Who else would do it?
His victory came out of nowhere. No one predicted it. That's interesting surely?

I think you might have joined the debate rather late -not in any way an insult, by the way. I probably could have phrased it better, and yes, I see why you think it is odd. Many folk in their euphoria at JC's elevation had made all sorts of extravagant claims that basically the country was excited at this development. I attempted to say that it seems clear that many folk, including some on here, sought to join the Labour party these last few weeks or months with the precise intention of voting for him, but would not have done so, had he not stood. Fair enough - that is their right. This bulked up the numbers and the landslide victory gave the impression of a hugely popular figure, whereas the reality at present is that he is popular only with the left wing of the party. But yes, you are right -who else would do it.
Having grovelled, I do find your last sentence rather odd! You say no one predicted it -yet all the polls indicated he would win and I fully expected this result. Surely you did too? Not sure why this would be interesting?

 

[Bold Seagull]

I will help you out then, he wasn't elected because people thought he would compromise, on the contrary they trusted the purity of his long held political beliefs as a socialist. That's why he is different.

If he starts to dilute these beliefs he will be another fraud, and his EU stance is a perfect example of how this may happen.

Let's make no mistake he is anti free market, anti austerity, and anti private sector.........by appearing to close the option that Labour will not advocate an exit, he will have compromised.

Only this week's the TUC were debating that a UK "exit" would be their preferred stance, so how will Corbyn square that circle as an avowed trade unionist?

Oh okay then, thank you for the help, always much appreciated from someone so open minded.

 

[cunning fergus]

Oh okay then, thank you for the help, always much appreciated from someone so open minded.

No problem.

Remember it's easy, if you really are an avowed republican, you won't sing the national anthem........ever.

Once you do start singing it you lose your credibility as a republican, you are either a fraud or not quite as resolute in your belief as you may have indicated.

Likewise if you are an avowed socialist you won't start mixing your policies to suit the interests of capitalists.

Simples.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

No problem.

Remember it's easy, if you really are an avowed republican, you won't sing the national anthem........ever.

Once you do start singing it you lose your credibility as a republican, you are either a fraud or not quite as resolute in your belief as you may have indicated.

Likewise if you are an avowed socialist you won't start mixing your policies to suit the interests of capitalists.

Simple.

Your world really is, isn't it?

 

[W.C.]

I think you might have joined the debate rather late -not in any way an insult, by the way. I probably could have phrased it better, and yes, I see why you think it is odd. Many folk in their euphoria at JC's elevation had made all sorts of extravagant claims that basically the country was excited at this development. I attempted to say that it seems clear that many folk, including some on here, sought to join the Labour party these last few weeks or months with the precise intention of voting for him, but would not have done so, had he not stood. Fair enough - that is their right. This bulked up the numbers and the landslide victory gave the impression of a hugely popular figure, whereas the reality at present is that he is popular only with the left wing of the party. But yes, you are right -who else would do it.
Having grovelled, I do find your last sentence rather odd! You say no one predicted it -yet all the polls indicated he would win and I fully expected this result. Surely you did too? Not sure why this would be interesting?

Really? When he scraped on to the ballot he was predicted to win? Sure, in the weeks running up to the vote the polls indicated he would win, but not when he threw his hat in to the ring.

 

[DataPoint]

The whole Corbyn situation is utterly ridiculous. A complete shambles!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The whole Corbyn situation is utterly ridiculous. A complete shambles!

Great contribution. Thank you.

 

[Hastings gull]

Really? When he scraped on to the ballot he was predicted to win? Sure, in the weeks running up to the vote the polls indicated he would win, but not when he threw his hat in to the ring.

That may be the case, but that is hardly what I was pointing out.

 

[supaseagull]

The whole Corbyn situation is utterly ridiculous. A complete shambles!

I have to agree.

I think it's absolutely laughable that an election took place, a clear winner won it and a massive majority of the eligible electorate took part to vote in it. Indeed what a shambles!

Seriously though, without wanting to sound patronising, your apathy is baseless.

I didn't vote for Corbyn, but the manner in which he has won is fantastic and it proves that there is still life in the UK political system. The fact that you have opened this thread and contributed means that you must have had some element of interest in the subject matter. In fact, certainly in the last 9 or so years I've been posting on here, I can't recall a thread regarding politics being bounced so frequently as this one has.

That means therefore, that regardless of the political beliefs on here, Corbyn has captured the imagination of many of those who left the political world behind.

Therefore to call a landslide political vote a shambles perhaps, means you don't really understand the political debate taking place on this thread.

After all, I don't recall anyone calling Maggie's landslide win in 87 or Blairs trouncing of the Tories in 97 or 01 a shambles.

 

[Hastings gull]

I have to agree.

I think it's absolutely laughable that an election took place, a clear winner won it and a massive majority of the eligible electorate took part to vote in it. Indeed what a shambles!

Seriously though, without wanting to sound patronising, your apathy is baseless.

I didn't vote for Corbyn, but the manner in which he has won is fantastic and it proves that there is still life in the UK political system. The fact that you have opened this thread and contributed means that you must have had some element of interest in the subject matter. In fact, certainly in the last 9 or so years I've been posting on here, I can't recall a thread regarding politics being bounced so frequently as this one has.

That means therefore, that regardless of the political beliefs on here, Corbyn has captured the imagination of many of those who left the political world behind.
Therefore to call a landslide political vote a shambles perhaps, means you don't really understand the political debate taking place on this thread.

After all, I don't recall anyone calling Maggie's landslide win in 87 or Blairs trouncing of the Tories in 97 or 01 a shambles.

I think you are being rather unfair and certainly selective. It is a huge exaggeration to say that JC has captured the imagination etc - he has energised the left of the left who felt that they were under-represented in parliament -nothing more, nothing less. The vital word is eligible, not the electorate - they may well have something to say, come the election. Whether his election proves that there is still life in the political world is a very bold statement -he has breathed life into those who support left wing policies, but time will tell if his appeal goes beyond that, and he will certainly need to.

One might argue that the shambles is due to the fact that had clear difficulty in filling his team, and it is by no means certain that he commands respect even from the MPs in his own party,when others refused to serve, so in that sense, this is why his appointment seem shambolic.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think you are being rather unfair and certainly selective. It is a huge exaggeration to say that JC has captured the imagination etc - he has energised the left of the left who felt that they were under-represented in parliament -nothing more, nothing less. The vital word is eligible, not the electorate - they may well have something to say, come the election. Whether his election proves that there is still life in the political world is a very bold statement -he has breathed life into those who support left wing policies, but time will tell if his appeal goes beyond that, and he will certainly need to.

One might argue that the shambles is due to the fact that had clear difficulty in filling his team, and it is by no means certain that he commands respect even from the MPs in his own party,when others refused to serve, so in that sense, this is why his appointment seem shambolic.

I feel he has done more than "energised the left of the left". The sheer volume of people joining the Labour Party, and the numbers of "young" voters suggest to me it's something a bit more that just hard core lefties.

 

[synavm]

I feel he has done more than "energised the left of the left". The sheer volume of people joining the Labour Party, and the numbers of "young" voters suggest to me it's something a bit more that just hard core lefties.

In my experience (I'm vice-chair for membership at a local CLP) it seems to be young activist types that felt apathetic towards politics, not necessarily hardcore lefties, but a section of young socially aware people. The issue will be that I feel these people only represent a very small section of the electorate, the challenge is going to be adapting the Corbynite message which is very much based on the rights and wrongs of socioeconomic policy to the every day lives of your average man on the street, and that average person on the street needs to know that his or her circumstances will improve.

The centre ground of the electorate that he needs is currently socially conservative, even selfish but it does have some compassion, will Corbyn's message resonate with these people? I feel this is the only way Labour can win, the strategy of winning by improving turnout won't help them as a) there isn't much evidence to suggest the apathetic are left leaning, could it be they just don't care? and b) quite often constituencies with low turnout are Labour constituencies anyway, so you'd only be increasing the majorities in seats already held rather than taking more seats.

Personally speaking, I'm not a fully paid up Corbynite, I didn't vote for him, but I do like Jeremy Corbyn. He has conviction and a macroeconomic policy that is radically different, if somewhat utopian. He has clearly inspired swaves of people and he is reviving the Labour movement- that can only be a good thing. My problem is, I'm not convinced he'll improve Labour's chances in 2020, but let's see. Rumour is that he'll run until 2019, focusing on reforming the party and the way politics is done and then a candidate for the general election will be picked- that for me makes sense.

 

[BigGully]

I feel he has done more than "energised the left of the left". The sheer volume of people joining the Labour Party, and the numbers of "young" voters suggest to me it's something a bit more that just hard core lefties.

But those new voters would need to be hardcore lefties because that will be politics they will be supporting, otherwise whats the point, its just as bad to be leftie LITE as has been suggested be Tory LITE of the Blair years.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think you are being rather unfair and certainly selective. It is a huge exaggeration to say that JC has captured the imagination etc - he has energised the left of the left who felt that they were under-represented in parliament -nothing more, nothing less. The vital word is eligible, not the electorate - they may well have something to say, come the election. Whether his election proves that there is still life in the political world is a very bold statement -he has breathed life into those who support left wing policies, but time will tell if his appeal goes beyond that, and he will certainly need to.

One might argue that the shambles is due to the fact that had clear difficulty in filling his team, and it is by no means certain that he commands respect even from the MPs in his own party,when others refused to serve, so in that sense, this is why his appointment seem shambolic.

[MENTION=1877]supaseagull[/MENTION] doesn't say everyone is energised, he says many of those who left the political world behind, as [MENTION=409]Herr Tubthumper[/MENTION] points out the numbers joining the Labour party as new members suggests this is a fair enough opinion. What he has breathed life into is that a leader of a main political party doesn't have to be a preselected chosen set of career politicians who have carefully picked their way through their political world set up for a top job. The irony in your own response is that you've been far more selective than Supaseagull was!

This is the leader of the Labour Party - so of course it is mainly to do with the left at this point, why would anyone think anyone from the right is energised by it!? If you look at the top 10 post counts from this thread, it's mainly from people who lean to the right...funny that.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

But those new voters would need to be hardcore lefties because that will be politics they will be supporting, otherwise whats the point, its just as bad to be leftie LITE as has been suggested be Tory LITE of the Blair years.

I think you can be attracted to Corbyn without necessarily being a hard leftie. I support a number of his policies, but oppose a few others. I'm a leftie, but not a hard leftie, but a lot of his ideas really resonate with me and fit my outlook of fairness, education, opportunity and support for the average person and the vulnerable.

From anecdotal evidence it seems a lot of the young and new voters are simply hacked off with their lot and want a change.

 

[Buzzer]

If you look at the top 10 post counts from this thread, it's mainly from people who lean to the right...funny that.

The top 10 posters are split 50:50 between left and right-wing as are the top 20 posters on this thread and all it shows is the people interested in political threads. I really don't think there's any right-wing conspiracy.

 

[Bold Seagull]

The top 10 posters are split 50:50 between left and right-wing as are the top 20 posters on this thread and all it shows is the people interested in political threads. I really don't think there's any right-wing conspiracy.

Okay, perhaps it is 50:50 then, it looks more to me but I'm not sure of everyone's persuasions. I wasn't implying there was a conspiracy, I was, clumsily perhaps, suggesting that you can't say he has only energised politics just to the left, when so many from the right are so keen to pass opinion already - hence so many varied opinions on this thread. It is also fairly obvious that those who lean to the right (I'm not saying you do) will see it as shambolic. It looks like a bit reactionary to me given he was only appointed at the weekend.

 

[Buzzer]

Okay, perhaps it is 50:50 then, it looks more to me but I'm not sure of everyone's persuasions. I wasn't implying there was a conspiracy, I was, clumsily perhaps, suggesting that you can't say he has only energised politics just to the left, when so many from the right are so keen to pass opinion already - hence so many varied opinions on this thread. It is also fairly obvious that those who lean to the right (I'm not saying you do) will see it as shambolic. It looks like a bit reactionary to me given he was only appointed at the weekend.

Point taken but in my defence I posted this way back in May in response to Mustafa trying to big up Russell Brand as some sort of saviour and long before Corbyn's name had been mentioned regarding the leadership:

Absolute nonsense. I suggest you google the likes of Eric Heffer and Terry Fields, men who stuck to their socialist principles all through their lives. Another one, Bob Crow wasn't interested in home ownership. And then when you're finished looking them up then do some research on Dave Nellist and Jeremy Corbyn. They've all shown it's perfectly feasible to stay true to socialist principles within a capitalist society. Forget about your main man Russell Brand with his do as I say not as I do, he isn't fit to lick their boots. These should be your role models.

so it's not like I'd never heard of him or his politics before now. I think I was the first in the thread to mention McDonnell's name too in regards the shadow chancellor position as I was well aware of his despicable comments regarding Bobby Sands. I find politics fascinating.

 

[Normal Rob]

You're a right wing Labour career politician like Yvette Cooper?

certainly not. That would suggest a much higher degree of interest than i could ever possibly have.

 

[Hastings gull]

I feel he has done more than "energised the left of the left". The sheer volume of people joining the Labour Party, and the numbers of "young" voters suggest to me it's something a bit more that just hard core lefties.

The sheer volume, you say. I don't know the numbers but do recall a post saying that since his coronation, there had been 30,000 who had joined. This may be impressive in such a short period of time, but is still a very small number for a country of this size. All I am saying is that the many posts from people of left wing persuasion demonstrate (from their perspective) understandable euphoria, and they let their feelings run riot. What has been, in the grand scheme of the numbers game, a large trickle, has been interpreted as a torrent.