Jeremy Corbyn.

[Hastings gull]

How exactly? He has been elected in his ward for decades. The only place the greens had a decent candidate they got elected. Where are the other options? Miliband was still central really so he does not really count.

Yes, you are right in that he is probably a very good constituency MP. As for the Greens, I suppose that boils down to one's interpretation of "decent". Miliband might have been central, as you suggest, but to the electorate, he was left of Blair. And was it not Blair who said that when the traditional right takes on the traditional left, the traditional result emerges.

 

[Hastings gull]

Him being left of Blair makes little difference. Why would a left wing voter vote for a central party? My point is how do we know the strength of the left vote when the options are so few and not available nationally?

Yes, Ok, I see your point. Perhaps it just boils down to one's definition of left wing.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes, Ok, I see your point. Perhaps it just boils down to one's definition of left wing.

What's your definition?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

What's your definition?

An excellent question .... and just to challenge [MENTION=28630]Hastings gull[/MENTION] a bit further, where do I land on the political spectrum :

> I support the renationalisation of the utility companies ( except telecommunications ones ) thus making me left wing
> I support small government thus making me right wing
> I support higher benefits in certain areas thus making me left wing
> I support low taxes for EVERYONE thus making me right wing
> I support the scrapping of Trident thus making me left wing
> I support leaving the EU thus making me .... well .... not sure on that one !

Left wing and right wing isn't as black and white as many people make out.

 

[Castello]

Starting to get fed up with this. Instead of criticising Corbyn and his supporters why not put across a convincing, and positive, case as to the benefits of Burnham, Cooper etc?

umm because they don't have useful skills, other than not answering questions very proficiently?

 

[beorhthelm]

... This idea of Corbyn unelectable is utter rubbish - I'm pretty much right wing, voted UKIP last election - if Corbyn wins the leadership then, obviously policies depending, I'd seriously consider voting for him next election.

it is very policy dependent, and we know already many of his policies: generally they are of a flavour that the majority dont want, or see as being flawed. printing money to create spiralling inflation isnt going to be a vote winer for one thing. unless the conservatives spectacualry fudge the next 4 years, there isnt any reason people will lurch way off left, having just rejected a center-left alternative. people say he's unelectable becaus they recognise how the numbers and electorate work, best case senario for Corbyn is to regain in Scotland and a few northern marginals. the shires that swapped Liberals for Conservatives arent going to be voting Corbyn, unless he radically changes his politics, which would alienate his left-wing supporters and remove his "conviction" politican tag.

 

[Castello]

Yes, you are right in that he is probably a very good constituency MP. As for the Greens, I suppose that boils down to one's interpretation of "decent". Miliband might have been central, as you suggest, but to the electorate, he was left of Blair. And was it not Blair who said that when the traditional right takes on the traditional left, the traditional result emerges.

Wasnt it Blair that said I know there areWeapons of Mass Destruction in there somewhere and we will find them? Want to trade Blair quotes? I really dont think Blair is the person you should be quoting for well thought out political analysis.

 

[Castello]

Blair can see the car crash in slow emotion. Everything he says is 100% correct, the problem is his credability remains rock bottom

Really? Everything he says is 100% correct. Care to update me on where the WMD's are. How he will make the world a safer place. How history will judge him..... Oh wait he was right on that, just not the way he hoped. Were still waiting on Chilcott.

The truth is there is no way of knowing that Labour wouldnt have been elected with a different leader in 1997. Major was dead in the water. Blair's one skill was in taking credit for other peoples actions, and denying responsibility for his own actions.

 

[Castello]

An excellent question .... and just to challenge [MENTION=28630]Hastings gull[/MENTION] a bit further, where do I land on the political spectrum :

> I support the renationalisation of the utility companies ( except telecommunications ones ) thus making me left wing
> I support small government thus making me right wing
> I support higher benefits in certain areas thus making me left wing
> I support low taxes for EVERYONE thus making me right wing
> I support the scrapping of Trident thus making me left wing
> I support leaving the EU thus making me .... well .... not sure on that one !

Left wing and right wing isn't as black and white as many people make out.

You fall in the box marked awkward little buggers with a mind of their own.

 

[Hastings gull]

Wasnt it Blair that said I know there areWeapons of Mass Destruction in there somewhere and we will find them? Want to trade Blair quotes? I really dont think Blair is the person you should be quoting for well thought out political analysis.

I gave you one quote and in this I think he happens to be right. That does not mean I think he is right on everything at all or that all of what he says has merit and it is not a question of wanting to trade Blair quotes. He does seem to be quite discredited at present.

 

[ferring seagull]

An excellent left winger but, for most, I think he would be a liability !

 

[Westdene Seagull]

You fall in the box marked awkward little buggers with a mind of their own.

I'm hoping that's a good thing !!!!

 

[Castello]

I'm hoping that's a good thing !!!!

Seeing as how I'm always being told thats where I belong, I'd have said so. wouldnt you?

 

[Castello]

I gave you one quote and in this I think he happens to be right. That does not mean I think he is right on everything at all or that all of what he says has merit and it is not a question of wanting to trade Blair quotes. He does seem to be quite discredited at present.

ok fair point. I just felt a quote from Tony Blair wasnt the best source of back up evidence

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

An excellent question .... and just to challenge [MENTION=28630]Hastings gull[/MENTION] a bit further, where do I land on the political spectrum :

> I support the renationalisation of the utility companies ( except telecommunications ones ) thus making me left wing
> I support small government thus making me right wing
> I support higher benefits in certain areas thus making me left wing
> I support low taxes for EVERYONE thus making me right wing
> I support the scrapping of Trident thus making me left wing
> I support leaving the EU thus making me .... well .... not sure on that one !

Left wing and right wing isn't as black and white as many people make out.

Someone who has their own ideas about politics?? This will completely **** with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] ' head and his rigid antiquated ideas of politics

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

it is very policy dependent, and we know already many of his policies: generally they are of a flavour that the majority dont want, or see as being flawed. printing money to create spiralling inflation isnt going to be a vote winer for one thing. unless the conservatives spectacualry fudge the next 4 years, there isnt any reason people will lurch way off left, having just rejected a center-left alternative. people say he's unelectable becaus they recognise how the numbers and electorate work, best case senario for Corbyn is to regain in Scotland and a few northern marginals. the shires that swapped Liberals for Conservatives arent going to be voting Corbyn, unless he radically changes his politics, which would alienate his left-wing supporters and remove his "conviction" politican tag.

But this is old thinking. The idea behind a Corbyn win is that he will mainly reinvigorate lapsed and/or new voters and get them to the ballot box. It isn't necessarily about winning the hearts and minds of middle England. Whether he does this or not is open to debate. But discussing his capture of middle England is futile.

 

[Flex Your Head]

It's so ridiculous, all these Labour party grandees coming out and slagging off Corbyn. Not just displaying mild distaste, but full on assaults and threats of doomsday should he become leader. No word on why they are backing their preferred candidate (if indeed they even have one), and which policies they support, just varying degrees of hatred for Corbyn. Surely backing one of the candidates and promoting their message would be far more positive and far less damaging for the party they profess to love?

You know what the Tories are going to do at the next election if Jeremy Corbyn wins? Simply plaster these quotes from the anti-Corbyn brigade everywhere and say something along the lines of "If his own party think this of his policies..."

I look forward to these party bigwigs being similarly vocal and passionate in attacking the Tories very soon, but I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Soulman]

Labour shooting themselves in the foot....again.

 

[cunning fergus]

Someone who has their own ideas about politics?? This will completely **** with [MENTION=12825]cunning fergus[/MENTION] ' head and his rigid antiquated ideas of politics

I tell you what does **** with my head, people now advocating Corbyn as Labour leader who previously supported Labour's Blairite policies.

These are the kind of people who still support capitalism, private ownership of state utilities, free labour markets and the EU's austerity policies.

In the next breath they swear blind they are socialists...........these kind of people are idiots.

There are a lot about these days.

 

[jakarta]

This thread feels like I'm late night in a cheaply built hotel and listening to a marriage disintegrating next door, alarming but entertaining in equal measures as the volume and abuse increases...