Jeremy Corbyn.

[Megazone]

https://theworldturnedupsidedownne....remy-corbyn-was-on-the-right-side-of-history/

 

[Castello]

I see Jack Straw (last seen offering cash for access) has joined Tony Blair (last seen doing PR for murderous dictators) in denouncing Corbyn.

I suppose it's pretty fitting that barely any of the Blairites are still in politics and instead are filling their pockets wherever and whenever they can. If they want to lecture the Labour Party membership, why not stand again?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...his-tax-bill-despite-another-bumper-year.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ld-face-war-crimes-charges-over-Iraq-War.html

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/n...he_country_s_lowest_expenses_claimer_1_748369

who would you trust more; a man who avoids paying his way and who is currently awaiting the result of an enquiry that could lead to him facing war crime charges, or a man who has avoided the limelight, focussed on representing his constituents and in 2010 had the lowest expense claim in parliament.

Still wondering why Corbyn is doing so well? then watch this ;

https://youtu.be/howOTM7DPE4

 

[spring hall convert]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...his-tax-bill-despite-another-bumper-year.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...ld-face-war-crimes-charges-over-Iraq-War.html

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/n...he_country_s_lowest_expenses_claimer_1_748369

who would you trust more; a man who avoids paying his way and who is currently awaiting the result of an enquiry that could lead to him facing war crime charges, or a man who has avoided the limelight, focussed on representing his constituents and in 2010 had the lowest expense claim in parliament.

Still wondering why Corbyn is doing so well? then watch this ;

https://youtu.be/howOTM7DPE4

Love it when ATD has a rant.

 

[Castello]

Love it when ATD has a rant.

dont you just he's like me at home but with the balls to say it in public.

 

[synavm]

As a Tory voter, I am fascinated by the rise and rise of Jeremy Corbyn and I can quite understand why the prospect of him becoming leader of the Labour Party excites those on the left of the party. However,if he does become leader, I just cannot see him gaining sufficient ground in the country to get a sniff of power, as his views and policies will not be attractive to the majority of people in this country. Milliband was seen as too left, so why should Corbyn succeed when he is even more to the left?
I can understand that many Labour supporters feel frustrated and disappointed with the election result, but if they really think that Britain will ever become that socialist utopia,many on the left desire,then they are truly deluded.
Socialism hasn't proved too successful and utopia doesn't exist.

Sorry to go back a few pages here, but just thought I'd respond to this.

I don't think the country rejected Miliband because he was too left-wing, I think it's because he lacked conviction, he came across as odd, he wasn't trusted on the economy and on top of all that, he was seen as just another member of the Westminster bubble. People just didn't see him as leadership material.

Is there an appetite for socialism? Probably not in those terms, but there is certainly an appetite for an alternative and Corbyn represents that alternative. Looking at his macroeconomics, I'm not sure as leader he'd be the old school socialist he's portrayed- though he is definitely left of centre. Personally, I see myself as being on the right of the Labour Party, but I'll be voting for him, because he has conviction and a real alternative vision for the country, and that's exactly what is needed. I also feel if everything went exactly to plan, he could trigger a real movement for social justice.

 

[carteater]

Well I'll be voting for him.

 

[BLOCK F]

Sorry to go back a few pages here, but just thought I'd respond to this.

I don't think the country rejected Miliband because he was too left-wing, I think it's because he lacked conviction, he came across as odd, he wasn't trusted on the economy and on top of all that, he was seen as just another member of the Westminster bubble. People just didn't see him as leadership material.

Is there an appetite for socialism? Probably not in those terms, but there is certainly an appetite for an alternative and Corbyn represents that alternative. Looking at his macroeconomics, I'm not sure as leader he'd be the old school socialist he's portrayed- though he is definitely left of centre. Personally, I see myself as being on the right of the Labour Party, but I'll be voting for him, because he has conviction and a real alternative vision for the country, and that's exactly what is needed. I also feel if everything went exactly to plan, he could trigger a real movement for social justice.

Hi Synavm,
Wow,that was going back a bit.I actually put up another post more recently(I think) about why, I thought, Labour and Milliband were rejected by the electorate.My main reasons coincided with yours........not PM material and couldn't be trusted with the economy. I also added that his anti business and leftie rhetoric scared, not only business, but a lot of ordinary folk ,as well.
No harm in putting forward an alternative vision for the country and one cannot deny Corbyn's conviction.Trouble is, conviction politicians like Corbyn and Benn are seen as far too extreme for most voters' taste. The thought of either of them running the country would do more than ' frighten the horses'.
As a Tory, I am far from impressed with Burnham and Cooper and I believe Liz Kendall has got to bide her time. Trouble is, if Corbyn wins, the Labour party may well tear itself to bits and be unable to operate as an effective opposition to the Government. That wouldn't serve its' supporters or the country any good at all.
P.S. What is your personal interpretation of social justice? Just interested.

 

[BLOCK F]

Hi Synavm,
Wow,that was going back a bit.I actually put up another post more recently(I think) about why, I thought, Labour and Milliband were rejected by the electorate.My main reasons coincided with yours........not PM material and couldn't be trusted with the economy. I also added that his anti business and leftie rhetoric scared, not only business, but a lot of ordinary folk ,as well.
No harm in putting forward an alternative vision for the country and one cannot deny Corbyn's conviction.Trouble is, conviction politicians like Corbyn and Benn are seen as far too extreme for most voters' taste. The thought of either of them running the country would do more than ' frighten the horses'.
As a Tory, I am far from impressed with Burnham and Cooper and I believe Liz Kendall has got to bide her time. Trouble is, if Corbyn wins, the Labour party may well tear itself to bits and be unable to operate as an effective opposition to the Government. That wouldn't serve its supporters or the country any good at all.


P.S. What is your personal interpretation of social justice? Just interested.

Meant to add...............have a good weekend!

 

[synavm]

P.S. What is your personal interpretation of social justice? Just interested.

For me, I'd say the biggest thing is equal distribution of opportunity (as opposed to wealth). Too many people, largely from poor backgrounds, are held back from reaching their potential. These people need to be aided with strong investment in public service largely through education.

Away from social mobility I feel social justice could also be an umbrella term for a fair taxation system, improved working conditions, legitimately affordable housing/renting and a strong public health and care system. Ultimately it's about utilising the state to deliver a fairer society. A lot of these things can sound like hot air when not delivered with conviction (this is the case with the other three candidates) and, though, I've surprised myself to be backing Corbyn (I would have backed Umunna if he had run despite him being at the total opposite end of the spectrum within Labour), he has a lot of answers to these issues (whether they are right or not I'm not 100% sure, but it is certainly an appealing alternative vision IMO and I think it could appeal to a large section of the electorate... If Labour doesn't tear itself apart first!).

Oh, and also, have a good weekend sir!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

For me, I'd say the biggest thing is equal distribution of opportunity (as opposed to wealth). Too many people, largely from poor backgrounds, are held back from reaching their potential. These people need to be aided with strong investment in public service largely through education.

Away from social mobility I feel social justice could also be an umbrella term for a fair taxation system, improved working conditions, legitimately affordable housing/renting and a strong public health and care system. Ultimately it's about utilising the state to deliver a fairer society. A lot of these things can sound like hot air when not delivered with conviction (this is the case with the other three candidates) and, though, I've surprised myself to be backing Corbyn (I would have backed Umunna if he had run despite him being at the total opposite end of the spectrum within Labour), he has a lot of answers to these issues (whether they are right or not I'm not 100% sure, but it is certainly an appealing alternative vision IMO and I think it could appeal to a large section of the electorate... If Labour doesn't tear itself apart first!).

Oh, and also, have a good weekend sir!

These are pretty much my feelings on the matter as well, including the Umunna comment.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

For me, I'd say the biggest thing is equal distribution of opportunity (as opposed to wealth). Too many people, largely from poor backgrounds, are held back from reaching their potential. These people need to be aided with strong investment in public service largely through education.

Away from social mobility I feel social justice could also be an umbrella term for a fair taxation system, improved working conditions, legitimately affordable housing/renting and a strong public health and care system. Ultimately it's about utilising the state to deliver a fairer society. A lot of these things can sound like hot air when not delivered with conviction (this is the case with the other three candidates) and, though, I've surprised myself to be backing Corbyn (I would have backed Umunna if he had run despite him being at the total opposite end of the spectrum within Labour), he has a lot of answers to these issues (whether they are right or not I'm not 100% sure, but it is certainly an appealing alternative vision IMO and I think it could appeal to a large section of the electorate... If Labour doesn't tear itself apart first!).

Oh, and also, have a good weekend sir!

Well said. I would love to believe that Corbyn will be able to deliver on this, but that would mean winning an election and having been around for Michael Foot as leader of the Labour Party I can't see that happening. If Corbyn does become leader the press and the other parties will bide their time, then eviscerate him. That they have not done so already is just powder being kept dry. But it is not just the press and politicians. Will the electorate be ready to vote for something different? I lean towards the view that as a nation we are basically conservative (small c) but with a sense of fair play and justice. Society is out of kilter at this moment for the reasons you eloquently express, and there are other forces around such as the SNP that make it all less clear cut. These could be interesting times.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

On Milliband I spoke to my aunt about a year after his election. She is dyed in the wool labour but doubted she would be able to vote for him as he had stabbed his brother in the back. A point cynically raised during the election, but it had done its trick. Ed was not trusted.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Well said. I would love to believe that Corbyn will be able to deliver on this, but that would mean winning an election and having been around for Michael Foot as leader of the Labour Party I can't see that happening. If Corbyn does become leader the press and the other parties will bide their time, then eviscerate him. That they have not done so already is just powder being kept dry.

If Corbyn wins then I very much doubt he'll still be the Labour leader come May 2020.

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

If Corbyn wins then I very much doubt he'll still be the Labour leader come May 2020.

You may be correct but strange things are happening in elections in Europe. There is not much that is certain.

 

[Stumpy Tim]

On Milliband I spoke to my aunt about a year after his election. She is dyed in the wool labour but doubted she would be able to vote for him as he had stabbed his brother in the back. A point cynically raised during the election, but it had done its trick. Ed was not trusted.

I'm no fan of Ed, but I never understand this point of view. How exactly did Ed stab his brother in the back? He just won the election to be leader - he didn't do anything more than that. If David had won, would people have said the same thing the other way round?

 

[Gwylan]

I'm no fan of Ed, but I never understand this point of view. How exactly did Ed stab his brother in the back? He just won the election to be leader - he didn't do anything more than that. If David had won, would people have said the same thing the other way round?

On the face of it, this back-stabbing claim is nonsense but there's a wider implication. What the claim means is that David M was the anointed choice as leader and it was a gross act of insubordination for anyone to stand against him. You can see it now with ravings of Blair and his acolytes (notably the egregious McTernan) against Corbyn.

I'm currently reading a history of Britain in the 70s and it's notable to compare the current leadership election with the one held in 1976. The candidates then were: Callaghan, Foot, Healey, Jenkins, Crosland and Benn - six genuine heavyweight politicians (three future party leaders and one deputy; the other two, influential authors and thinkers), Compare the choice then with the one now. Compare the choice and weep

 

[Stumpy Tim]

On the face of it, this back-stabbing claim is nonsense but there's a wider implication. What the claim means is that David M was the anointed choice as leader and it was a gross act of insubordination for anyone to stand against him. You can see it now with ravings of Blair and his acolytes (notably the egregious McTernan) against Corbyn.

I'm currently reading a history of Britain in the 70s and it's notable to compare the current leadership election with the one held in 1976. The candidates then were: Callaghan, Foot, Healey, Jenkins, Crosland and Benn - six genuine heavyweight politicians (three future party leaders and one deputy; the other two, influential authors and thinkers), Compare the choice then with the one now. Compare the choice and weep

My view is the only one with a chance against Cameron is Kendall, but she's last with seemingly no chance

 

[Dick Knights Mumm]

I'm no fan of Ed, but I never understand this point of view. How exactly did Ed stab his brother in the back? He just won the election to be leader - he didn't do anything more than that. If David had won, would people have said the same thing the other way round?

As a younger brother myself I didn't see much of a problem and was surprised at my aunt's vehement view. She was not the only one either. I think it had to do with "turns" and the order of things. Ed's time would come, meantime support the family. Bit of the Godfather in there as well.

 

[Gwylan]

My view is the only one with a chance against Cameron is Kendall, but she's last with seemingly no chance

The next leader won't be up against Cameron at the next election, he's already said he's standing down,

IMO Kendall has the least chance against the next leader. She agrees with about 90% of their policies so I'm not sure how she could set out a vision that could set her policies apart.

Looking back to 1976, there were six contrasting and distinct visions of the future (something mirrored on the Tory side too, their leadership election pitted the consensus politician Whitelaw against the more dogmatic Thatcher), Labour had a real choice. Compare that to today with the choice today of the Three Stooges mouthing David Brent-like platitudes against an honest but somewhat limited Old Labourite

 

[Stumpy Tim]

The next leader won't be up against Cameron at the next election, he's already said he's standing down,

IMO Kendall has the least chance against the next leader. She agrees with about 90% of their policies so I'm not sure how she could set out a vision that could set her policies apart.

Looking back to 1976, there were six contrasting and distinct visions of the future (something mirrored on the Tory side too, their leadership election pitted the consensus politician Whitelaw against the more dogmatic Thatcher), Labour had a real choice. Compare that to today with the choice today of the Three Stooges mouthing David Brent-like platitudes against an honest but somewhat limited Old Labourite

She would be up against Cameron's record though, and probably Osborne who is his right hand man. I think she's the only one who can win back Middle England, and that's what they need to win. Like it or not, middle England won't vote for a Scouser so Burnham won't get anywhere. Cooper is too associated with Balls, though I'm coming round to her it has to be said. To me, Kendall is believable and sincere - yes she's to the right of the Labour party, but that's where they need to be. IMO like.