[Politics] Jeremy Corbyn said........

[Weststander]

a awful lot of things.

A man of principle over populism for decades, now desperate for power with McDonnell, they'll say absolutely anything to court votes. Power, even the mere smell of it, corrupts.

 

[cunning fergus]

It seems my prediction was correct. Let's get back to coherence.... I said that if you resign from a club you can't expect to demand to set any new terms. Who is paying for the club is irrelevant. I assume you think we are paying for and therefore own the club. Think again. But....if you were correct that the UK is bankrolling the EU then instant hard Brexit would make absolute sense for us. So.....why isn't May going for this? Why is she asking the EU to make an offer? I suspect the answer is....you are wrong....we are not bankrolling the EU and getting nothing in return. As I said, if getting out of the EU is worth any amount of money and difficulty with the neighbours going forward then we should hard Brexit tomorrow. If not....huffing and puffing has not, is not and will not get us anywhere with the rest of the EU. They simply think we are mad.

I must say, a hard border with Eire will be a marvel to behold....because that is the only option if we hard Brexit.

Anyway....frankly I just look occasionally at this cluster**** and its machinations on these NSC threads, and shake my head sadly. I offer no solutions for making Brexit work. I have read no solutions from anyone else, either. And my bed is dry. I do marvel, however, at those who could see nothing but bad about being in the EU, and still believe that only good will manifest after we leave. I presume they also believe in the second coming, alchemy and Santa.

I suspect you have fired in 300 odd words here and you want to berate me about coherence. Let’s be clear, the EU is not a club in the orthodox way people understand “clubs”. You may be able to enlighten me to the contrary but i bet there are no golf clubs or gyms (your reference) whereby a few members subsidise the many. The best way to describe it is like tax, whereby the rich subsidise the poor. People understand that and it’s why the poor working class in this country are f*cked off with the EU and what the country pays in contributions, they are getting taxed twice.

You are quite wrong what we own too, as a member we currently bear the costs, but so do we also have assets, including the real estate, the shiny tower blocks, the museums and the debts owed to the EU. The EIB which the U.K. has an 16% stake is worth alone about 10bn. Remember this is an EU instituion which works on the basis that the U.K. taxpayer puts up 16% of the capital to get an 8% of it returned as “investment” in the U.K. So, I return to my point above it’s not a club, it’s a device that impoverishes the poor in this country for the enrichment of monatarists and Tories.

Overall the balance between what the EU does which is good and what it does that is bad is disproportionately on the bad side, I can see why many counties support it, but the U.K. is not in that position, it’s why the EU has long been treated with suspicion and why successive generations of Politicians of all flavours have deceived the public about what was really happening.

Save you ire for them, not the working class that have been shat on by Tories and pissed on by Labour.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I suspect you have fired in 300 odd words here and you want to berate me about coherence. Let’s be clear, the EU is not a club in the orthodox way people understand “clubs”. You may be able to enlighten me to the contrary but i bet there are no golf clubs or gyms (your reference) whereby a few members subsidise the many. The best way to describe it is like tax, whereby the rich subsidise the poor. People understand that and it’s why the poor working class in this country are f*cked off with the EU and what the country pays in contributions, they are getting taxed twice.

You are quite wrong what we own too, as a member we currently bear the costs, but so do we also have assets, including the real estate, the shiny tower blocks, the museums and the debts owed to the EU. The EIB which the U.K. has an 16% stake is worth alone about 10bn. Remember this is an EU instituion which works on the basis that the U.K. taxpayer puts up 16% of the capital to get an 8% of it returned as “investment” in the U.K. So, I return to my point above it’s not a club, it’s a device that impoverishes the poor in this country for the enrichment of monatarists and Tories.

Overall the balance between what the EU does which is good and what it does that is bad is disproportionately on the bad side, I can see why many counties support it, but the U.K. is not in that position, it’s why the EU has long been treated with suspicion and why successive generations of Politicians of all flavours have deceived the public about what was really happening.

Save you ire for them, not the working class that have been shat on by Tories and pissed on by Labour.

Crikey. Nothing I said (originally) has anything to do with what you have written. Truly, this conversation is one of the more baffling and psychedelic I can recall. Just one example - what 'ire'? I suppose our conversation rather neatly sums up the state of Brexit play - nobody engaged with it has much idea what the next person is going on about most of the time, and when they think they do, they really don't. It would be laughable were it not so tragic. Anyway, all the best.

 

[getreal1]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-42951817

Is there anything that this bloke, nah stuff it, apologist won't promise to try and get a vote? Even if he will never actually deliver.

Student politics. Twas ever thus.

 

[Pavilionaire]

Their video was called "Leave Campaigners - Let's stay in the single market".

It wasn't called "Leave Campaign - no single message".

Your post was implying the same, that Leave campaigners had claimed we wouldn't leave the single market, you didn't claim they had muddled messages.

All of the "messages", which were cut and chopped to suit the argument, were also made before any referendum was even decided upon, none of them are even from the campaign to leave.

Don't try to defend lies and spin which were clearly misleading and were entirely meant to mislead. Have some self respect.

Have some self-respect??

Go on YouTube and watch Evan Davis Newsnight interview with Tory Brexiteer MEP Daniel Hannan of 25th June 2016 where Davis takes Hannan to task on his apparent support for a 'Norway' option.

Hannan: "The idea of staying within a Common Market but outside a political integration then that is something I think is feasible, yes." Hannan then goes on to distinguish between free movement of labour (which he supports) and free movement of people (which he doesn't).

Hannan was on a lot before, during and after the Referendum. I watched a lot of coverage and his position didn't change throughout, often citing Norway to try and appeal to those voters that favoured what we know as a Soft Brexit.

The brilliance of the Leave campaign was its ability to be all things to all people, from extreme Nazi racists to the working classes disillusioned with the Establishment to ordinary people who thought the EU was generally good but for the immigration. Our negotiations have been a mess in part because Theresa May doesn't actually know what sort of Brexit to try and deliver. For many people it was a protest vote against the Establishment who had campaigned for Remain, for other simply about immigration, sticking it to the Germans or just flying the flag for Britain. Many people didn't actually engage with the "Market" aspect at all.

 

[cunning fergus]

Brilliant post. My bet is you won't get a coherent reply (if you get anything remotely resembling any sort of reply). How difficult is it for people to understand that if you resign from a club you can't set terms. A resignation is a resignation. Any parting gifts are at the discretion of the club. Any continued use of the club's gym, car park or other facilities are at the discretion of the club, and may incur a charge - to be decided by the club. A failure to undrstand any of this is why I have always found the soft Brexit advocates to be absurd fantasists. I have no such issue with hard Brexiters - I don't want hard Brexit btw, I am a dry-eyed remainer - since hard Brexit is at least definitive, unequivocal and achievable, and entirely in our power to effect.

So here is your post referencing Brexit as being like a club that we are resigning from........so you brought it up.

But (as I’m telling you) the EU is not a club, it’s not run like a club and leaving it is not like handing over a membership card and writing off a couple of months subs. Trying to run this argument is absurd.

As I have indicated the U.K. taxpayer is in for 10bn alone with the EIB, that is deadly important, and why we are not at the table with Barnier with a shrinking todger in our hands like say the Lithuanianswould be. The remainers would love this to be true, but the fact is we are sitting on the other side of the table from Barnier with a cock like 3lb of Stilton (i.e. very difficult to consume in one sitting.

If for your purposes you want to run something simplistic so you can get your head round what is really happening try a divorce. Both sides own stuff and want stuff the other side has. Some stuff may need to be paid for after the divorce for a period of time, some stuff will simply cease. Maybe you have not been through one but a divorce is not like leaving a club.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Have some self-respect??

Go on YouTube and watch Evan Davis Newsnight interview with Tory Brexiteer MEP Daniel Hannan of 25th June 2016 where Davis takes Hannan to task on his apparent support for a 'Norway' option.

Hannan: "The idea of staying within a Common Market but outside a political integration then that is something I think is feasible, yes." Hannan then goes on to distinguish between free movement of labour (which he supports) and free movement of people (which he doesn't).

Hannan was on a lot before, during and after the Referendum. I watched a lot of coverage and his position didn't change throughout, often citing Norway to try and appeal to those voters that favoured what we know as a Soft Brexit.

The brilliance of the Leave campaign was its ability to be all things to all people, from extreme Nazi racists to the working classes disillusioned with the Establishment to ordinary people who thought the EU was generally good but for the immigration. Our negotiations have been a mess in part because Theresa May doesn't actually know what sort of Brexit to try and deliver. For many people it was a protest vote against the Establishment who had campaigned for Remain, for other simply about immigration, sticking it to the Germans or just flying the flag for Britain. Many people didn't actually engage with the "Market" aspect at all.

Ok ..

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Here's an interesting development in Amsterdam.

Amsterdam refers case of British nationals wanting to retain EU citizenhip to ECJ. Judge Bakals says no referendum in a democracy should prejudice a minority.


http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archiv...citizenship-to-be-referred-to-european-court/

 

[portslade seagull]

Anyway back to Corbyn said ... put your hands in the air whilst we rob you

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

So here is your post referencing Brexit as being like a club that we are resigning from........so you brought it up.

But (as I’m telling you) the EU is not a club, it’s not run like a club and leaving it is not like handing over a membership card and writing off a couple of months subs. Trying to run this argument is absurd.

As I have indicated the U.K. taxpayer is in for 10bn alone with the EIB, that is deadly important, and why we are not at the table with Barnier with a shrinking todger in our hands like say the Lithuanianswould be. The remainers would love this to be true, but the fact is we are sitting on the other side of the table from Barnier with a cock like 3lb of Stilton (i.e. very difficult to consume in one sitting.

If for your purposes you want to run something simplistic so you can get your head round what is really happening try a divorce. Both sides own stuff and want stuff the other side has. Some stuff may need to be paid for after the divorce for a period of time, some stuff will simply cease. Maybe you have not been through one but a divorce is not like leaving a club.

I have. Twice. And it is nothing like Brexit.

We are clarly not even in the same building, let alone room, let alone with the same book, let alone on the same page. But that's OK. At least you're civil, and I hope I have been likewise. All the best.

 

[Hampster Gull]

It seems my prediction was correct. Let's get back to coherence.... I said that if you resign from a club you can't expect to demand to set any new terms. Who is paying for the club is irrelevant. I assume you think we are paying for and therefore own the club. Think again. But....if you were correct that the UK is bankrolling the EU then instant hard Brexit would make absolute sense for us. So.....why isn't May going for this? Why is she asking the EU to make an offer? I suspect the answer is....you are wrong....we are not bankrolling the EU and getting nothing in return. As I said, if getting out of the EU is worth any amount of money and difficulty with the neighbours going forward then we should hard Brexit tomorrow. If not....huffing and puffing has not, is not and will not get us anywhere with the rest of the EU. They simply think we are mad.

I must say, a hard border with Eire will be a marvel to behold....because that is the only option if we hard Brexit.

Anyway....frankly I just look occasionally at this cluster**** and its machinations on these NSC threads, and shake my head sadly. I offer no solutions for making Brexit work. I have read no solutions from anyone else, either. And my bed is dry. I do marvel, however, at those who could see nothing but bad about being in the EU, and still believe that only good will manifest after we leave. I presume they also believe in the second coming, alchemy and Santa.

Spot on

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Spot on

Cheers!

 

[Titanic]

It hardly matters what he says... despite the parlous state of the hated Tory government, his own support is deserting him.

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 41% (-)
LAB: 40% (-1)
LDEM: 8% (+1)
UKIP: 4% (-)
GRN: 3% (-)

via @ICMResearch for The Grauniad, 02 - 04 Feb

Westminster voting intention:

CON: 43% (+1)
LAB: 39% (-3)
LDEM: 8% (+2)

via @YouGov, Feb 2018
Chgs. w/ 29 Jan

#momentum

 

[Weststander]

The Argus website has this comment today (under the snowy weather news). Love or hate JC, I did laugh.

rogerthefish3 hrs ago
Talking of snow...

The seven dwarfs always left early each morning to go to work in the mine. As always, Snow White stayed home doing her domestic chores.

As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their lunches and take them to the mine.

One day as she arrived at the mine with the lunches, she saw that there had been a terrible cave-in. Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White began calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs had somehow survived.

"Hello. Hello!" she shouted. "Can anyone hear me? Hello!" For a long while, there was no answer. Losing hope, Snow White again shouted, "Hello! is anyone down there?"

Just as she was about to give up all hope, she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, "VOTE FOR Jeremy Corbyn!"

Snow White fell to her knees and prayed, Oh, thank you, God! At least Dopey is still alive!

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

The Argus website has this comment today (under the snowy weather news). Love or hate JC, I did laugh.

rogerthefish3 hrs ago
Talking of snow...

The seven dwarfs always left early each morning to go to work in the mine. As always, Snow White stayed home doing her domestic chores.

As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their lunches and take them to the mine.

One day as she arrived at the mine with the lunches, she saw that there had been a terrible cave-in. Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White began calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs had somehow survived.

"Hello. Hello!" she shouted. "Can anyone hear me? Hello!" For a long while, there was no answer. Losing hope, Snow White again shouted, "Hello! is anyone down there?"

Just as she was about to give up all hope, she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, "VOTE FOR Jeremy Corbyn!"

Snow White fell to her knees and prayed, Oh, thank you, God! At least Dopey is still alive!

Dopey doesn't speak.

 

[Brian Fantana]

Dopey doesn't speak.

Bravo

 

[wellquickwoody]

The UK can have its cake now AND eat it according to Jezza now!

 

[lawros left foot]

The Argus website has this comment today (under the snowy weather news). Love or hate JC, I did laugh.

rogerthefish3 hrs ago
Talking of snow...

The seven dwarfs always left early each morning to go to work in the mine. As always, Snow White stayed home doing her domestic chores.

As lunchtime approached, she would prepare their lunches and take them to the mine.

One day as she arrived at the mine with the lunches, she saw that there had been a terrible cave-in. Tearfully, and fearing the worst, Snow White began calling out, hoping against hope that the dwarfs had somehow survived.

"Hello. Hello!" she shouted. "Can anyone hear me? Hello!" For a long while, there was no answer. Losing hope, Snow White again shouted, "Hello! is anyone down there?"

Just as she was about to give up all hope, she heard a faint voice from deep within the mine, "VOTE FOR Jeremy Corbyn!"

Snow White fell to her knees and prayed, Oh, thank you, God! At least Dopey is still alive!

Funnily enough, I first heard this about Thatcher in about 1982, it was funnier then.