Jeremy Corbyn on Andrew Marr programme

[beorhthelm]

Its not a 'straw man' to say that private banks required state funding as a result of the market becoming increasingly free-er,.

wel true thats not a straw man, its just false. its well documented that the root cause of 2007 was US policy on housing, as i pointed out. this may have been exacerbated by "free-er" banks, though this ignores that US regulation was already stricter than here, EU regulations stricter yet, and they both suffered problems.

which is what advocates of Laissez-faire capitalism desired and therefore criticise those advocates; the two do go hand in hand.

this is your straw man, claiming there are advocates of laissez-faire capitalism. there arent any serious proponents today, its only seen as a component of economic theory, a place to start from then move on.

 

[essbee]

OK, let's get more modern: Jim Callaghan was 64 when he became PM

Modern? 1964. Come on.

 

[essbee]

Yes you are right. A person of 70 will be in much better health than someone of 70 in 1939!

That's true - but we are talking people's perceptions here.

 

[essbee]

No we arn't. We are talking about people trying to find something against him.

Plooks - I like the bloke - but I'm trying to gauge the mood of the electorate in 2020. Ok - I could be wrong - and I
hope I am - but I just don't see him being electable. Simple as that.

 

[Hampster Gull]

I'd be happy with a 70 year old in charge. Depemds on the person. Ageism is another "ism" that needs tackling

 

[BensGrandad]

Its not his age which makes him unelectable but his antiquated and proved to have failed ideas and wishes.

 

[Lord Bracknell]

8 to 1 to be the next pm. I seriously doubt he will be Labour's leader in 2020

The people who voted for Cornyn to become Labour leader in 2015 weren't choosing a Prime Minister for 2020. They were choosing someone to be opposing Cameron now.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out, since there hasn't been serious opposition by a political party to any government since Blair became PM in 1997.

 

[Dandyman]

No my friend, every time you go to a shop you control the allocation of resources and that is the whole wonder of freedom and the market and what sets us free from the tyranny of state run economies.

No, you are acting as a consumer in a market dominated by an oligarchy of the major supermarkets. https://corporatewatch.org/content/rough-guide-uk-farming-crisis-6-corporate-control-food-system-0

 

[Leyton Gull]

Its not his age which makes him unelectable but his antiquated and proved to have failed ideas and wishes.

Face it. The main peeps who don't dig the Corb are the peeps who loved Thasser and or Bliar! Don't think the Corb will loose too much kip.

 

[Hampster Gull]

No, you are acting as a consumer in a market dominated by an oligarchy of the major supermarkets. https://corporatewatch.org/content/rough-guide-uk-farming-crisis-6-corporate-control-food-system-0

True people try to influence your decisions but they are your decisions. I rembemr going to Warsaw just after its freedom from the USSR. That was terrible

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Interesting comments on this thread (as usual!). I note that in a week, the mocking derision has dwindled, and now the discussion has moved to how Corbyn will 'manage' the inevitable disagreements that, in the past, had labour accused of 'split' in the headlines of the Sun and Mail.

Well, I have a feeling that being relaxed about disagreement, and letting debate take palce with conference deciding, hopefully with security folk chucking out anyone who gets up and interrupts and rants (Derek Hatton during Kinnock's speach) will allow folk to change how they feel about openness and free discussion, and not be alarmed or threatened by it.

I have a feeling that if Corbyn is defeated in the party over Trident, he will accept it as part of the process. I think that in contrast to any perception he is a stubborn dinosaur, he may be able to manage the broad church in a way that apeals to the electrorae. Time will, of course, tell.

 

[BensGrandad]

Face it. The main peeps who don't dig the Corb are the peeps who loved Thasser and or Bliar! Don't think the Corb will loose too much kip.

What he is advocating has been proved through time to not work. What this government needs is a good shadow cabinet to keep them on their toes and offer a possible alternative, not failed age old policies that people know will not work so wont try it.

 

[Leyton Gull]

What he is advocating has been proved through time to not work. What this government needs is a good shadow cabinet to keep them on their toes and offer a possible alternative, not failed age old policies that people know will not work so wont try it.

Like Millibland was?

 

[BensGrandad]

There hasnt been a good shadow cabinet since the tory came back in. For all their faults they kept Blair and Brown on their toes.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

I note that in a week, the mocking derision has dwindled....

It's mainly all been said but Corybn and his merry band will provide new material on a weekly basis.

Well, I have a feeling that being relaxed about disagreement, and letting debate take palce with conference deciding, hopefully with security folk chucking out anyone who gets up and interrupts and rants (Derek Hatton during Kinnock's speach) will allow folk to change how they feel about openness and free discussion, and not be alarmed or threatened by it.

I have a feeling that if Corbyn is defeated in the party over Trident, he will accept it as part of the process. I think that in contrast to any perception he is a stubborn dinosaur, he may be able to manage the broad church in a way that apeals to the electrorae. Time will, of course, tell.

Sounds all very civilised. A cynic might think he has little choice but to welcome 'open debate' with the vast majority of the parliamentary party against him. If he manages to secure changes allowing his support base more say/power in policy making then it will be interesting to see how long open debate will be tolerated.

If a leader backtracks on long held beliefs, exiting the EU,NATO then loses a vote on Trident will that appear strong and inclusive or weak and incompetent? Are his New Labour opponents really going to sit idly by as the far left strengthens it's grip on the party? Is it really credible for members of the shadow cabinet to have diametrically different views on trifling issues such as defence of the realm? Will the electorate view Labour as a broad church or hopelessly split and incapable of governing, i am guessing the latter.

 

[Flex Your Head]

I like the cut of Tim Fallon's cloth. His speech was superb. Corbyn is like a throwback to Karl Marx and we don't need that in 21st century Britain. I am veering towards the lib dems in 2020 espcially as Baker got his just deserts

He's an evangelical Christian which makes him a non-starter in my book.

 

[Kevlar]

you are in denial of reality.There are no invisible hands!
The market you belief in is imaginary.It is inter human relationships.
It is just the same as socialist who dismiss the reality of countries who had
experience of nearly complete common ownership and dismiss the problems
by saying it wasn't proper socialism.
Markets left to themselves tend to oligarchy and ever increasing inequality.
They have never efficiently used or distributed resources.The welfare state came to be
because of the abject failure of the market to provide enough jobs or combat poverty.

 

[Murray 17]

I like the cut of Tim Fallon's cloth. His speech was superb. Corbyn is like a throwback to Karl Marx and we don't need that in 21st century Britain. I am veering towards the lib dems in 2020 espcially as Baker got his just deserts

Fantastic result in Lewes.

I don't think the Lib Dem's numbers add up, and even if they did their calculations are based on taxing the rich. Similar to Labour in many respects. And with only 7 MPs I think they have had their time and it will be many years, if ever, before they become any kind of force in British politics.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

There hasnt been a good shadow cabinet since the tory came back in. For all their faults they kept Blair and Brown on their toes.

Utter nonsense. The tory opposition were a shambols, lurching about, and not getting anywhere. The REAL opposition to TB was old mother Brown. The irony is that a sufficient number of people liked TB and his emoting. It was only when a man unfit to lead (Brown) was faced by a tory who had absorbed the TB 'middle ground' presentation that the house of cards collapsed. I don't know what planet you live on, but my guess is you have Mrs Dale's Diary on you radiogram.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Will the electorate view Labour as a broad church or hopelessly split and incapable of governing, i am guessing the latter.

Yep. Glass half full for me, and half empty for you, it seems.

I'll be interested to see how the landscape looks when Boris does a Brown and shoe horns himself into number ten. It is true that tories know how to back their leader and say what they feel is necessary for the sake of unity, but Boris is a volte face merchant in another league to Corbyn. In my hand of cards I play Boris' 'Hang Nelson Mandela' T shirt, and bid the quiet principle of Corbyn, , modified in a sensible fashion as conference determines, against the blond spiv, any day. Well I can but hope . . . .