[Albion] Jay Rodriguez: "The truth came out"

[Commander]

He would never have put the Club and his Manager through the process he had to go through if he thought for one minute he could have misheard it - He heard it correct all right - He was racially abused by Jay Rodriguez but like I said. He just couldn't prove it

I don't think you're understanding my point here.

 

[Bozza]

He would never have put the Club and his Manager through the process he had to go through if he thought for one minute he could have misheard it - He heard it correct all right - He was racially abused by Jay Rodriguez but like I said. He just couldn't prove it

Jeez.

There have been numerous times in my life where I am absolutely 100% confident that I have heard something, only to be wrong. Similarly there have been times I've said something that has been completely misheard by another, who was adamant they heard something different to what I actually said.

I absolutely believe that Bong is sure he heard what he said he heard. But he could still be wrong. The ONLY person who knows what was said is Jay Rodriguez.

 

[Machiavelli]

End of the day neither side proved their version or were able to disprove the others version. I do get a feeling of that old saying 'he doth protest too much' and by keep mentioning it rather than let it just die out he is appearing to have the need to defend himself.
A bit of common sense to not keep opening old wounds is needed but guilty or not keep dragging it up is not doing any one any good.

The other side of this is that Bong 'dothn't protest too much'. Or he protests rarely. I gather this is the only time he's accused an opponent of making a racist comment. He was so sure that he approached the referee immediately, and the game was stopped for a few minutes (I was there). In contrast to some others on this board, I strongly suspect that he did make a racist comment, and that Bong didn't mishear what was said. After all, the racist word Bong alleged that he used isn't too difficult to mishear.

 

[NooBHA]

Jeez.

There have been numerous times in my life where I am absolutely 100% confident that I have heard something, only to be wrong. Similarly there have been times I've said something that has been completely misheard by another, who was adamant they heard something different to what I actually said.

I absolutely believe that Bong is sure he heard what he said he heard. But he could still be wrong. The ONLY person who knows what was said is Jay Rodriguez.

That can happen I agree

But when your own team behind you, say to you immediately after it '' Look are you 100% certain before we throw ourselves behind you in this'' - Bong would have played it back in his mind a thousand times and said to himself ''could I be wrong, could I even have slightly misheard, could it really have been something different'' and when he has done that and knowing the gravity of what he would be putting the Club, his manager and himself through and he still comes up with the same answer then there is no likelihood in his mind that he was wrong. There are times in life when you simply ARE 100% sure in what you have just heard. This was one of those times for Gaetan.

 

[Commander]

That can happen I agree

But when your own team behind you, say to you immediately after it '' Look are you 100% certain before we throw ourselves behind you in this'' - Bong would have played it back in his mind a thousand times and said to himself ''could I be wrong, could I even have slightly misheard, could it really have been something different'' and when he has done that and knowing the gravity of what he would be putting the Club, his manager and himself through and he still comes up with the same answer then there is no likelihood in his mind that he was wrong. There are times in life when you simply ARE 100% sure in what you have just heard. This was one of those times for Gaetan.

I still don't think you're understanding it.

 

[Mackenzie]

Sorry Jay, the verdict still remains “unproven”.


The only TRUTH is we’ll never know if you are guilty or innocent.

 

[NooBHA]

Sorry Jay, the verdict still remains “unproven”.


The only TRUTH is we’ll never know if you are guilty or innocent.

I do understand what your saying - You are saying. ''Bong is certain he heard what he heard but there is the slightest chance he might just be wrong'' - I get that. I understand it but in my response I am saying. He was asked to play it all back in his head again before they all put their weight behind him. He did that a thousand times and came up with the same words, so he has analysed it more than any of us could ever do. He probably threw every scenario of other words that it possibly could have been through his own brain and it still come out the same.

And the fact that he has done all that and gave himself an opportunity to be mistaken and came to the conclusion he wasn't. That's enough for me.

No cases would ever get reported if you took the view ''Well there is the slightest chance you might be wrong''

Sorry this should have been a response to post #45

 

[Mackenzie]

I do understand what your saying - You are saying. ''Bong is certain he heard what he heard but there is the slightest chance he might just be wrong'' - I get that. I understand it but in my response I am saying. He was asked to play it all back in his head again before they all put their weight behind him. He did that a thousand times and came up with the same words, so he has analysed it more than any of us could ever do. He probably threw every scenario of other words that it possibly could have been through his own brain and it still come out the same.

And the fact that he has done all that and gave himself an opportunity to be mistaken and came to the conclusion he wasn't. That's enough for me.

No cases would ever get reported if you took the view ''Well there is the slightest chance you might be wrong''

I’m not saying any of that. I’m simply repeating the verdict of the inquiry that any guit or innocence is and remains unproven.

 

[NooBHA]

I’m not saying any of that. I’m simply repeating the verdict of the inquiry that any guit or innocence is and remains unproven.

I know - It wsn't your post I was responding to. My mistake. Sorry

 

[The Lemming Stomper]

I know - It wsn't your post I was responding to. My mistake. Sorry

See how easy it is to be misunderstood.

 

[NooBHA]

See how easy it is to be misunderstood.

See also how easy it is when you make a mistake to come out and say sorry

 

[Commander]

I do understand what your saying - You are saying. ''Bong is certain he heard what he heard but there is the slightest chance he might just be wrong'' - I get that. I understand it but in my response I am saying. He was asked to play it all back in his head again before they all put their weight behind him. He did that a thousand times and came up with the same words, so he has analysed it more than any of us could ever do. He probably threw every scenario of other words that it possibly could have been through his own brain and it still come out the same.

And the fact that he has done all that and gave himself an opportunity to be mistaken and came to the conclusion he wasn't. That's enough for me.

No cases would ever get reported if you took the view ''Well there is the slightest chance you might be wrong''

Sorry this should have been a response to post #45

The human mind is a very complicated thing. As Bozza said earlier, I have been absolutely 100% convinced I have said something, or remembered something, and it turns out that I was actually wrong. It doesn't matter how sure you are, it doesn't necessarily make you right. And sometimes the higher the stakes, the more you are convinced of your hearing / memory. Cognitive dissonance is a really interesting area.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say Rodriguez probably did say something racist, and then instantly regretted it. But there's also a fair chance that he didn't, which is why the verdict the FA came to was correct.

 

[Machiavelli]

The human mind is a very complicated thing. As Bozza said earlier, I have been absolutely 100% convinced I have said something, or remembered something, and it turns out that I was actually wrong. It doesn't matter how sure you are, it doesn't necessarily make you right. And sometimes the higher the stakes, the more you are convinced of your hearing / memory. Cognitive dissonance is a really interesting area.

If I had to put money on it, I'd say Rodriguez probably did say something racist, and then instantly regretted it. But there's also a fair chance that he didn't, which is why the verdict the FA came to was correct.

I really do get what you're saying, and also suspect -- although in my instance, it's strongly suspect -- that Rodriguez did say something racist to Bong. One of the word Bong alleges he uses is black. I'm wondering what word Rodriguez uttered that sounds like black. Can't think of any myself.

 

[father_and_son]

That can happen I agree

But when your own team behind you, say to you immediately after it '' Look are you 100% certain before we throw ourselves behind you in this'' - Bong would have played it back in his mind a thousand times and said to himself ''could I be wrong, could I even have slightly misheard, could it really have been something different'' and when he has done that and knowing the gravity of what he would be putting the Club, his manager and himself through and he still comes up with the same answer then there is no likelihood in his mind that he was wrong. There are times in life when you simply ARE 100% sure in what you have just heard. This was one of those times for Gaetan.

But being 100% sure and being right are not necessarily the same thing!

If there was any doubt in his mind about what he heard then he wasn't 100% sure... he was 90% sure or 75% sure or maybe even 50% sure. But yes, he said he is 100% sure. The scenario you describe probably happened and that, plus the fact he reacted immediately and has never waivered from his original account all make me believe he is absolutely, categorically and undeniably 100%. BUT, being 100% sure of something and being right are not the same thing.

I am 100% sure there is no God. I do not believe in a divine power in any shape or form. There is absolutely no God... it's not 99% sure or 99.9% sure, I am 100% sure.
Am I right? Dunno. I believe I am, that's what 100% sure means, but I can't prove it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

No cases would ever get reported if you took the view ''Well there is the slightest chance you might be wrong''

I think everyone is quite right to point out that he could believe it 100% and still be wrong, but it does seem like the balance of probability has been shifted to 'Bong misheard', which is now becoming a true-ism in and of itself.

I think what Noo wrote here is the absolute crux of this. To assume that there is no racism in football would be badly mistaken

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Personally I presume that Bong's experience of racism is more far-reaching than that of almost all on here and that, on the balance of probability, he heard what he heard.

It's true that, for the very same reason, he expects to hear racist remarks and might therefore have imagined it in the din at The Hawthorns (well, sort of). But equally, he would have known the consequences of complaining and would not have done it lightly.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think everyone is quite right to point out that he could believe it 100% and still be wrong, but it does seem like the balance of probability has been shifted to 'Bong misheard', which is now becoming a true-ism in and of itself.

I think what Noo wrote here is the absolute crux of this. To assume that there is no racism in football would be badly mistaken

Yup, and reading this thread alongside Gary Younge's article today on Serena/The Herald Sun where he commented that we have reached the peculiar juncture where accusations of racism make people more upset than the racism itself. The evidence is clearly stacked against Rodriguez.

 

[Kaiser_Soze]

Without concrete evidence, this was always going to be the case. Just look at the less complicated Rhian Brewster stuff. The truth came out in that a tribunal couldn't decide whether he had made racist remarks or not, which meant that the burden of proof lies more on him, than Bong. Instead of moving forward, maintaining his innocence and just getting on with it (like Milan Baros in an almost identical incident), Rodriguez is upset that he wasn't fully exonerated, and will continue to do interviews that try and twist the narrative to favour him and, skew public opinion regarding the incident.

But let's be serious about this, the truth about racism in football came out in a court of law, when John Terry was proven to have said an undoubtedly racist remark to Anton Ferdinand, but they decided that he was still not-guilty. Nothing has really changed and until there is zero tolerance regarding any racist remarks, they will continue to blight the game.

I think your memory is failing you there. The reason Terry was cleared because in context, what JT said wasn't racist!

 

[perseus]

The Wind-up

Jeez.

There have been numerous times in my life where I am absolutely 100% confident that I have heard something, only to be wrong. Similarly there have been times I've said something that has been completely misheard by another, who was adamant they heard something different to what I actually said.

I absolutely believe that Bong is sure he heard what he said he heard. But he could still be wrong. The ONLY person who knows what was said is Jay Rodriguez.

No point in bringing an unsubstantiated report again. It cannot be proven or made true by repetition or trumped by denial. The only purpose is to prevent a repeat.

 

[Beanstalk]

I think your memory is failing you there. The reason Terry was cleared because in context, what JT said wasn't racist!

Calling someone a black c**t is racist. 0/10. Poor attempt at a troll.


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