[Football] Jack Charlton has died.

[Jolly Red Giant]

No national side had done it with as much success in the large showpiece tournaments as Charlton did.

I can't think of any National Country at any of the major finals who had as many as Charlton's team did.

Many countries since then have been full of them but I can't think of many before his team.

As I pointed out - mass emigration has resulted in a large diaspora that is reflected in the Irish team (in the not too distant future you will see quite a few Irish born players from immigrant families)

And you point isn't actually that accurate -

The first tournament that Ireland qualified for was the Eruos in 1988.

Of the starting 11 - 6 were Irish born and 5 were born in Britain - 4 of the five had at least one Irish parent (2 of whom only ever held an Irish passport) - and Charlton was responsible for giving debuts to two of those players.

In the same tournament Ireland played Holland - on the pitch for Holland that day were -

Aaron Winter - Suriname
John van 't Schip - Canada

And Ruud Gullit and Frank Rijkard were both born to parents from Suriname as well.

The English team had - John Barnes - Jamaica - and Tony Dorigo - Australia.

The USSR squad in the same group had 12 Ukranians, 2 from Belarus, a Georgian, a Lithuanian and a German.

Of the French team that won the world cup in 1998 -

Patrick Vieira - Senegal
Marcel Desailly - Ghana
Lilian Thuram - Guadeloupe
Christian Karembeu - New Caledonia

Zindane' parents were Algerian, Theirry Henry's parents were from Antigua, Diomede's parents were from Guadeloupe, David Trezeguet was born in France to Argentinian parents who were in France for work - he grew up in Argentina and Spanish is his first language (he is far from fluent in French). Lizarazu and Deschamps both regard themselves as Basques.

There is a long history of not only players playing for the country of their parents - but for the former colonial powers the recruitment of players was often political. The Spanish team in the 1962 world cup had Alfredo Di Stéfano - Argentina - José Santamaría - Uruguay - Ferenc Puskás - Hungary - and Eulogio Martínez - Paraguay. In fact Spain were notorious during the Franco era of poaching (white) foreigners to play for Spain.

 

[NooBHA]

I had conceded that many countries did it after Jack Charlton. That was my original point that I made initially.

By your own concession JRG . Ireland had 5 of a starting line up born outside Ireland. I wasn't aware that England had 2 born outside England back then. If I was I had forgotten.

The USSR argument was a wee but if "show boating" because USSR by its nature was a collection of countries under one Sovereignty at the time. I enjoyed the lesson though on what country the players came from though. So thank you.

The Irish as you correctly state are indeed compulsive migraters. Indeed my own father's family moved to Scotland from Donegal in Ireland .

I am not like others on here who wants to pick holes in your arguments. I like your posts as you know but I think you have split hairs on my original post which I honestly don't mind but don't want us to transgress over minor issues in statements we each make.

So I am calling a " Truce "

 

[Frutos]

Could we try to keep this on topic please?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I had conceded that many countries did it after Jack Charlton. That was my original point that I made initially.

By your own concession JRG . Ireland had 5 of a starting line up born outside Ireland. I wasn't aware that England had 2 born outside England back then. If I was I had forgotten.

The USSR argument was a wee but if "show boating" because USSR by its nature was a collection of countries under one Sovereignty at the time. I enjoyed the lesson though on what country the players came from though. So thank you.

The Irish as you correctly state are indeed compulsive migraters. Indeed my own father's family moved to Scotland from Donegal in Ireland .

I am not like others on here who wants to pick holes in your arguments. I like your posts as you know but I think you have split hairs on my original post which I honestly don't mind but don't want us to transgress over minor issues in statements we each make.

So I am calling a " Truce "

I am not arguing with the point you are making Noo - my assertion is that it was not new with Charlton - it has always been a feature of not just Irish football, but world football. Part of the reason why it has appeared more obvious since the 1980s is because of the significant increase in international matches and Ireland were more successful. If you go back to the 1970s then Ireland maybe played 2/3 games a year. During the 1970s Ireland had players like Terry Mancini, David O'Leary, Mickey Walsh, Peter Thomas, John Dempsey, Tony Grealish - (Steve Heighway was born in Ireland to English parents who were working here and grew up in England) and they are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. For many decades Irish players would play for both the North and the Republic.

Like I said - this has been far more common than people realise - mostly with former colonial powers - Spain, Portugal, Holland did it a lot. Ireland is a small country, closely linked with the UK through history and politics and there is an estimated 16million people in Britain who have either Irish parents, grand parents or great-grandparents. In the past Irish people tended to gravitate to certain parts of the UK and formed closely knit communities - it really isn't that much of a surprise that many English born footballers with Irish connections choose to play for Ireland.

Anyway - this is supposed to be a thread about the legacy of Big Jack - and while this is part of it, it really is a small part.

 

[Sirnormangall]

Very sad - childhood hero of mine as part of a great Leeds team and England hero.

 

[METALMICKY]

Oh dear Gary Lineker on MOTD. Little tribute piece at start and apparently big Jack managed Sheffield united!

 

[Insel affe]

 

[OzMike]

RIP to a true footballing legend and decent bloke, never afraid to speak his mind and folk listened.
I was stuck in hospital during his Irish World Cup campaign and it gave me great pleasure watching him and his team.
Being a quarter Irish myself gave it added significance.
My grandfather on dad's side was from Donegal.

 

[AmexRuislip]

Jackie Charlton off the pitch.

[tweet]1282252576071835648[/tweet]

 

[exKT17]

I heard that in his Ireland days he was prone to dropping into a new boozer (not difficult over there) and buy everyone a drink. He would pay by cheque. Invariably the landlord would frame the cheque on the wall rather than cashing it.

What a fellow.