[Food] I've gone a bit vegan

[midnight_rendezvous]

I adventurously went out on a limb to try the vegan pizza on offer at ASDA today, just in case there is something in this vegan foodie lifestyle. My word, it was truly revolting. Bad enough to make anyone vegan curious grab a burger to take away the taste and risk a firestorm on NSC.

Try the Chicago Town Jackfruit one. Much better than the supermarket’s own. The Pizza Hut pizzas are also very good as are Papa John’s

 

[Palacefinder General]

I adventurously went out on a limb to try the vegan pizza on offer at ASDA today, just in case there is something in this vegan foodie lifestyle. My word, it was truly revolting. Bad enough to make anyone vegan curious grab a burger to take away the taste and risk a firestorm on NSC.

Where to start with that?

1. ASDA!
2. Ready made supermarket pizza.
3. Adventurous!

Have some real vegan food then come on here and say how much you love meat and what a sack of crap plant-based alternatives are and you might have some credibility.

I’d hate to imagine what a non-adventurous plate of food looks like in your world!

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

question for vegans: would you eat produce fertilised with animal by product?

This discussion has been made before, but with honey. The answer is some do, some don’t.

 

[dsr-burnley]

There’s some interesting articles and research cited here -> https://www.vivahealth.org.uk/veganhealth/dont-feed-cancer

You say it’s ‘relatively small’, but the top causes of death in the western world —heart disease, various cancers, diabetes, Parkinson’s, high blood pressure etc. have all been linked to the consumption of meats. All of the above can be prevented through simple changes in diet and lifestyle. The medical and scientific consensus on this, eat a more whole foods diet and eat less meat.

At the end of the day, we’re not children. We can listen to the medical consensus and try and eat healthier by eating more grains, pulses etc or ignore it and risk the diseases linked with the consumption of meat. Personally, I don’t think chomping down on a steak everyday because it ‘tastes nice’ is worth the risk of dying younger than I would if I had made better lifestyle choices. And that’s not even mentionIng the ethical or environmental ramifications.

And here's another link.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/1/218/4569305

This UK study agrees with the PETA study that vegetarians have less heart disease than meat eaters. But the vegetarians aren't living any longer - they're just dying of something else. This makes a different question; not that laying off the steak means that you will live for ever, or even for longer, just that laying off the steak will mean something else will kill you.

 

[dazzer6666]

I bought soy milk for the first time ever today.

Ooooooh get me!

Brilliant, another acre of rainforest ****ed. Congratulations [emoji23][emoji23]

 

[dazzer6666]

And here's another link.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/1/218/4569305

This UK study agrees with the PETA study that vegetarians have less heart disease than meat eaters. But the vegetarians aren't living any longer - they're just dying of something else. This makes a different question; not that laying off the steak means that you will live for ever, or even for longer, just that laying off the steak will mean something else will kill you.

Are they dying of boredom ? Or does it just feel like it ?

 

[beorhthelm]

This discussion has been made before, but with honey. The answer is some do, some don’t.

yes, similar. i asked because organic is fertilized with animal by product. interesting how deep people may or may not go.

 

[Super Steve Earle]

Where to start with that?

1. ASDA!
2. Ready made supermarket pizza.
3. Adventurous!

Have some real vegan food then come on here and say how much you love meat and what a sack of crap plant-based alternatives are and you might have some credibility.

I’d hate to imagine what a non-adventurous plate of food looks like in your world!

Wow. Sorry mate. Just wandering around the supermarket buying a few household essentials and the nice lady offered me a warm slice of vegan pizza to try. I thought it was real veģan food. Seriously not looking for credibility with vegans especially if they are all like you!

 

[Palacefinder General]

Wow. Sorry mate. Just wandering around the supermarket buying a few household essentials and the nice lady offered me a warm slice of vegan pizza to try. I thought it was real veģan food. Seriously not looking for credibility with vegans especially if they are all like you!

Apology accepted. Where did I say I was a vegan though?

 

[Withdean11]

Are you thinking of that recent survey where 42,000 people were observed over 18 years? It found that vegetarians had a 0.7% lower chance of heart disease/strokes than non-vegetarians. But they did say they weren't linking cause and effect - there is every chance that the vegetarian advantage could be because of other factors like vegetarians making extra effort in other health actions, eg. exercise.

You've nailed it there.

Add to that that vegans will be more conscious to eating healthy foods i.e more veg, less process foods/takeaways ect.

Of course there are health benefits to eating less takeaways and processed foods and replacing them with more micro-nutrients in vegetables. But that's not to say you can't still do that, but with eating meat too.

As a professional athlete, that's what my diet consists of. I eat meat everyday (mainly chicken or beef) - my regular blood checks show i'm in good health.

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

And here's another link.

https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/103/1/218/4569305

This UK study agrees with the PETA study that vegetarians have less heart disease than meat eaters. But the vegetarians aren't living any longer - they're just dying of something else. This makes a different question; not that laying off the steak means that you will live for ever, or even for longer, just that laying off the steak will mean something else will kill you.

You say that but Blue Zones, places with some of the best life expectancy figures, favour a diet rich in beans, greens, root vegetables, fruit, whole grains, nuts, and seeds, with studies showing that these people are often living over 90 and 100, respectively . People in Blue Zones typically eat a 95% plant-based diet that’s rich in legumes, whole grains, vegetables and nuts, all of which can help reduce the risk of premature death through diseases such as those already discussed. Chronic diseases are becoming more and more common in old age, this is in part due to our increasingly sedentary, meat rich lifestyles. It's not a coincidence that as our meat consumption goes up, so to does our risk of falling victim to the top killers of Western Society (heart disease, stroke, certain types of cancer etc).

 

[midnight_rendezvous]

Brilliant, another acre of rainforest ****ed. Congratulations [emoji23][emoji23]

Yet, roughly 90% of the soy grown is fed to animals who are then slaughtered...

Still, at least drinking soy means you're not contributing to an industry that has to shove a hand up a cows rear end to artificially inseminate them so they can produce milk

 

[Bakero]

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200203-the-hidden-biases-that-drive-anti-vegan-hatred

"People love to moan that vegans are annoying: research has shown that only drug addicts inspire the same degree of loathing. Now psychologists are starting to understand why – and it’s becoming clear that the reasons aren’t entirely rational."

 

[Audax]

I don't mind people who choose to vegan or vege for personal reasons that stay personal. I do object to those who do it for a cause and cite things like it being better for the environment. That's because it ultimately isn't: growing enough plant based food to feed the entire population of earth would be an environmental disaster. You're looking at large scale habitat destruction. A lot of those who push for Veganism as a cause forget that a lot of the meat production is done on land that simply isn't suitable for human consumption crops, and if you try to make it suitable you destroy the land that much quicker.

The answer is to get as many people as possible onto a sustainable balanced diet. That can and should include sustainably produced meat and fish.

Oh ... and perhaps a little population growth restraint. As much as China handled their 1 child policy poorly, they were onto a good idea in principle.

Citation needed.

Coming back to this super late. But, an apology here - what I said was was (semi-intentionally) overblown exaggeration.

Interesting. This goes against everything I have read on the sustainability of meat farming. Where did you read this?

It won't hold true worldwide, but it was certainly the case in Australia (and likely even more so now with climate change). Australian cattle etc grazing is typically conducted on land that simply won't grow crops efficiently. Much of the land that *is* suitable for crops in Australia is either already used for crops (often the *wrong* crops for Australia, such as water-intensive cotton and rice), or locked away underneath cities and towns, or locked away in protected national parks. Even then, traditional farming practices for crops like wheat have long been known to be damaging to the land in Australia. Australia is home to the oldest soil in the world, typically very low in nutrients, high in salt, and very unforgiving of European crop farming practices. [Note - large areas of both Africa and the USA currently used for meat production would be in a similar position in terms of being unsuitable for crops due to water deficiency.]

Beyond that: taking the entire world onto pure Vegan diets is going to require a massive change worldwide, and it would need to be planned. To get the full predicted environmental benefits, you'd need national governments and international bodies (UN, WTO, etc) to cooperate fully in transitioning from the current situation where crops are grown primarily for economic benefit - which can result in the wrong crops being selected from an environmental viewpoint - to one where crops are selected based on which crops are optimal for each parcel of land available for crops. And when I say that, I *include* meat/dairy production because there is land around the planet that is optimal for meat and dairy production over crops.

And even once we've optimised the land use, there's then the consideration of getting the food (once grown) distributed, and doing that distribution in an environmentally responsible way. Does the Vegan blueprint take into account that a country like Australia is highly unsuitable for growing some of the staple crops required for a balanced vegan diet in any significant quantity, and would therefore need to import? Does it account for the significant worldwide changes in trade rules / tariffs that would need to happen to allow for optimal land use to be viable?

Anyway, the point I was trying to (very poorly and flippantly) make was that switching the entire planet to pure veganism is a) a whole lot more complicated than just changing diets, and b) is likely itself not the optimal solution. The optimum lies somewhere between the current overly-Meaty average diet and Vegan. It's probably closer to the Vegan end than the Meaty end, but meat, dairy, and especially sustainable fish, should, in my opinion, have a place in an optimised global sustainable diet.

 

[daveinplzen]

Australia is on fire.

 

[Horton's halftime iceberg]

Anyway, the point I was trying to (very poorly and flippantly) make was that switching the entire planet to pure veganism is a) a whole lot more complicated than just changing diets, and b) is likely itself not the optimal solution. The optimum lies somewhere between the current overly-Meaty average diet and Vegan. It's probably closer to the Vegan end than the Meaty end, but meat, dairy, and especially sustainable fish, should, in my opinion, have a place in an optimised global sustainable diet.

Most the UN reports say if you are going to eat meat, eat meat that is pasture feed. Most of the worlds meat is not pasture feed.

As others have pointed out most of the worlds agriculture is producing crops (ironically a lot of soy beans) to feed this mass produced meat, especially in arid countries like Australia.

So in your example if most the world went over to a plant based diet, we would need only a fraction of the current agriculture footprint to produce the crops required. And may have to decide to what use to put the spare land too.

I think they also state if every one ate only meat produced in pastures (like they recommend) we would need another earth sized planet to rear enough live stock. They certainly talk about your optimum levels, but its a lot more, plant based and grains and a small amount of fish and meat once in a blue (animal rearing) moon.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Most the UN reports say if you are going to eat meat, eat meat that is pasture feed. Most of the worlds meat is not pasture feed.

As others have pointed out most of the worlds agriculture is producing crops (ironically a lot of soy beans) to feed this mass produced meat, especially in arid countries like Australia.

So in your example if most the world went over to a plant based diet, we would need only a fraction of the current agriculture footprint to produce the crops required. And may have to decide to what use to put the spare land too.

I think they also state if every one ate only meat produced in pastures (like they recommend) we would need another earth sized planet to rear enough live stock. They certainly talk about your optimum levels, but its a lot more, plant based and grains and a small amount of fish and meat once in a blue (animal rearing) moon.

No thanks. I’ll stick to daily, affordable meat.

Good luck with the Vegan, Vegetarian diet, or whatever it is you chose.

 

[narly101]

They apparently need their own shelf in the office fridge now;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51557090

 

[RandyWanger]

They apparently need their own shelf in the office fridge now;

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-51557090

Our office has a vegan fridge.

 

[mickybha]