[Food] I've gone a bit vegan

[maltaseagull]

Why not replace the meat with vegetables?

We will generally but Spag Bol needs more than veggies surely?

 

[soistes]

But what's the point in being vegetarian?

My rationale has always been aesthetic rather than moral, health or environmental. I’m not a lover of animals, but I became a vegetarian 45 years ago because don’t like the idea of eating their dead bodies (never liked the taste or smell of lumps of flesh, and hate the idea of decomposing corpses in my fridge). Milk, cheese and eggs don’t have that same dead flesh disgust factor (for me at least), hence I’m not a vegan.


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[CheeseRolls]

Lol, our local pest controller is vegan.

You know it sounds funny, but it really makes loads of sense to me. People, animals, plants die every day. Plant based diets have many positives, but never as virtuous as the dreamers would have you believe. How do those perfect veggies arrive at your door, without rabbit nibbles, bugs and caterpillar holes? Life is all about compromise.

 

[The Wookiee]

If you are thinking about moving to a plant based diet (I try not to use the word Vegan as it suggests a load of shouty "holier than thou", extremists) I can recommend the Game Changers movie - https://gamechangersmovie.com/ to see how a plant based diet can improve performance on the sports field and in the bedroom!
I have discovered some pretty decent plant based "cheeses" and I have been surpised how many plant based "ready made" products are now available in supermarkets. I still like to eat meat and dairy, but the amount I eat is declining although I suspect I will never give it up completely, and it has been surprisingly easy to find tasty plant based alternatives to what was my normal diet.
I expect that there will be a huge explosion of plant based products available over the next few years as ordinary people realise how tasty and healthy plant based food can be.

I watched that and found it very interesting!

However it didn’t mention all the other top athletes, record breakers, world champions and gold medalists who achieved those feats on a diet containing meat !

 

[Triggaaar]

[MENTION=28899]Biscuit Barrel[/MENTION] said "Some sports people have adopted the vegan diet purely to boost performance levels." Defoe is an example of that. Like I said, I'm not sure what effect it has had on his conditioning.

Fair enough.

 

[Triggaaar]

My rationale has always been aesthetic rather than moral, health or environmental. I’m not a lover of animals, but I became a vegetarian 45 years ago because don’t like the idea of eating their dead bodies (never liked the taste or smell of lumps of flesh, and hate the idea of decomposing corpses in my fridge). Milk, cheese and eggs don’t have that same dead flesh disgust factor (for me at least), hence I’m not a vegan.

That's got to be the most sensible reason I've ever heard. One of my vegetarian friends has gone veggie for health reasons because she thinks meat is bad for humans, and that we evolved (via apes) as purely plant eaters, starting to eat meat relatively recently.

 

[Bakero]

That's got to be the most sensible reason I've ever heard. One of my vegetarian friends has gone veggie for health reasons because she thinks meat is bad for humans, and that we evolved (via apes) as purely plant eaters, starting to eat meat relatively recently.

I take it you've pointed out to your friend that:
a) apes are omnivores (although we generally eat much more than our primate cousins)
b) humans have eaten meat for quite a while
c) the increase in meat consumption has been credited with the development of the human brain

 

[Bakero]

We will generally but Spag Bol needs more than veggies surely?

You could use lentils. Finely chopped mushrooms for a bit if texture too.

Or rather than trying to recreate a meat based sauce, go for another pasta dish.

 

[Triggaaar]

I take it you've pointed out to your friend that:
a) apes are herbivores (although we generally eat much more than our primate cousins)

Well no, because they're omnivores.

b) humans have eaten meat for quite a while

We've eaten meat since before we became human.

c) the increase in meat consumption has been credited with the development of the human brain

Indeed. She noted that lions and similar have short small intestines, whereas our stomachs are not the same. Ours are indeed different to a lion, but also different from herbivores. We're not able to get the protein out of grass for example, like grazing animals.

I think it's good that people are eating less meat, and great if people are able to live as vegans. The animal suffering in the food industry is unacceptable. But let's not pretend that meat is bad for humans, or that we didn't evolve to eat it.

 

[Bakero]

Well no, because they're omnivores.

That's what I said

Since becoming human, we've upped out meat intake signicantly. Some scientists say it's what made us human.

Fully agree with your last point. I don't eat much meat or dairy, hardly any at home. But the factors influencing that are ethical (environment and animal welfare) and economic.

 

[Triggaaar]

That's what I said

Since becoming human, we've upped out meat intake signicantly. Some scientists say it's what made us human.

Er, that's an oxymoron.

 

[Bakero]

Er, that's an oxymoron.

You're an oxymoron.

I knew I should've put the first human in inverted commas. To clarify, a million or 2 years ago meat consumption rose significantly. The increased consumption is credited with the development of the human brain.

Edit: just reading about a new theory that suggests fat ,not meat, may have led to bigger brains. Either way it wasn't a veggie diet
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fat-not-meat-may-have-led-to-bigger-hominin-brains/

 

[FatSuperman]

Posters asks for quick, simple vegan receipes.

Thread descends into debate about the morality of eating animals, veggie vs vegan, the development of the human brain. There are a handful of topics (Religion, Political party, Brexit, Vegans) that cannot help but go down this route very quickly. These are personal choices and no amount of shock videos or convincing arguments will really change minds. That's why I think activist vegans are such idiots. Who is going to sit there in a restaurant and become convinced by some screaming lunatic. I also understand how easy it is for us to disassociate ourselves from the product we buy and eat and the creatures it came from. I am a huge animal lover (not like that), but I barely gave any thought to the disconnect between that and eating animals. I still believe that those things can easily co-exist in people's moral framework. Loving animals to most of us means being kind to them, respecting them and not doing any harm to them, directly. Going and picking up some chicken breasts from the butcher / supermarket sits easily within that mindset.

I went vegan a few years ago and haven't looked back, I started with 'Veganuary' and found that it wasn't that difficult for me, so just carried on. I didn't eat a lot of meat anyway and am unbelievably stubborn, both probably helped.

@meades ball I would say to you that it's really easy to be a fat vegan, especially if like me you liked the 'occasional' burger. I make my own falafels which are unbelievable - but fried. So a load of them with a massive salad and pile of chips and a very generous portion of veganaise is certainly not doing me any favours. Unfortunately I've recently discovered 'Leon' Garlic Aioli is vegan - that's not helping me either. As others have said, changing what you cook and eat is probably what's going to help your weight, regardless of going vegan. Someone has already mentioned it, but convenience is the enemy. You end up sticking some vegan freezer dinner in the oven and that is no better than chicken nuggets etc. Or getting a Vegan Papa Johns is just the same as a non-vegan one. The only difference is the vegan cheese they use is utterly foul (I just order the garden party and get them to swap the cheese for olives or something).

You might find of course that following a vegan ruleset helps you stick to a new diet - it can be the thing that helps you stay true to it. I'll have a ponder about our staple, quick meals and give you a write-up.

 

[FatSuperman]

You're an oxymoron.

I knew I should've put the first human in inverted commas. To clarify, a million or 2 years ago meat consumption rose significantly. The increased consumption is credited with the development of the human brain.

"A report commissioned by the society of butchers has found..."

 

[FatSuperman]

But fundamentally I like cheese. I like a glass of milk, and I see no reason why we can't still have those and have happy cows. But I agree with Bozza that the way restaurants are now approaching this is to have a "normal" menu and then a vegan menu, which therefore excludes the ability to vegetarian meal that is a bit more tasty. The burger is a good example of this with the cheese difference, but also excluding dairy from anything makes a lot dishes taste very different.

Milk was the only thing I struggled with when moving to a plant-based diet. I used to love milk and cereal etc, but I cannot abide the 'plant milks'. The yare fine in tea & coffee, and for cooking, but I find them far to sweet and thin for any other purpose. The dairy industry is one of the worst though, from an animal cruelty perspective. I'd rather be a pig and get killed for my meat than be a dairy cow. They have to be constantly pregnant to produce milk, so it doesn't take much imagination to think how an industrialised process is going to work.

This is my main gripe. I actually see little wrong with someone having a few chickens and taking their eggs, but the industrial-scale production of eggs can only mean that cruelty is introduced. You can't have a process that is fast and cheap without causing significant trauma / harm to the animals. The wholesale destruction of male chicks is the most obvious of the problems in the egg industry. I suppose they don't really suffer if they are destroyed properly, but I find it horrific. Just so someone can make a profit on eggs.

Of course we have animal welfare standards to try and help, but there will be a great degree of variance as to the level they are adhered to.

 

[Triggaaar]

These are personal choices and no amount of shock videos or convincing arguments will really change minds.

I disagree, I think these videos and arguments will change some people's minds. Are there not more vegans now than there used to be? And is it not the case that some meat eaters are choosing to eat less?

That's why I think activist vegans are such idiots. Who is going to sit there in a restaurant and become convinced by some screaming lunatic.

No one sitting in that restaurant is suddenly going to change their mind, but the actions mean that more people are talking about being vegan and what it means to eat meat etc, and having it talked about will lead to more people giving up meat, or at least eating less of it.

 

[worthingseagull123]

Good luck with the veganism. I respect your choice.

I’ll stick with daily meat and dairy consumption. I expect others to respect that.

 

[Palacefinder General]

Iceland ‘No Bull’ burgers
Iceland ‘No Porkies’ burgers
Linda Mac’s Hoisin Duck Meal Kit
M&S Vegan Dirty Fries

Plus all the marvellous stuff you can make yourself. Good luck with it, and remember that if any misinformed bods try spouting their usual nonsense, just remind them that the strongest, most muscular animal in the forest is the plant eating silverback gorilla.

 

[Palacefinder General]

Frightening

 

[Bakero]

"A report commissioned by the society of butchers has found..."

As far as know, it's what mainstream science suggests, but I'm no expert. Is there evidence to the contrary?