[Football] Ivan Toney racially abused [online, not by an Albion fan]

[Deportivo Seagull]

The whole of NSC arguing with one prat.

Good.

I’m bored ….

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I’m bored ….

There is a lot to be said for repeatedly throwing a recidivist back into the sea, to be fair. Top work.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

There is a lot to be said for repeatedly throwing a recidivist back into the sea, to be fair. Top work.

it keeps me off the street.

 

[portlock seagull]

I cant find any specific data however an Increase of 70k cases over 8 years in the general populous would I suspect be reflected in football. Now care to provide evidence to back up your argument or are you going to base it on your experience only.?

You’ve asserted incidences of racism at football matches is up, and significantly up over time, without anything to back it up. Where’s I’ve not witnessed for many a year following the Albion and because that’s my experience, your assertion / general feeling is more ‘evidence-based’? Ok…let’s hope some actual stats exist so we can both learn from.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

You’ve asserted incidences of racism at football matches is up, and significantly up over time, without anything to back it up. Where’s I’ve not witnessed for many a year following the Albion and because that’s my experience, your assertion / general feeling is more ‘evidence-based’? Ok…let’s hope some actual stats exist so we can both learn from.

It might be the Engineer in me and call me old fashion but ‘evidence-based’ is Always the best approach.

 

[nickbrighton]

Are you really asking this of a fellow Brighton fan? Really?!! But even if I wasn’t, the answer is still of course I have, you’d have led a very charmed life if you hadn’t. You kind of prove my point though, you will simply never rid this world completely of these morons. It’s the easiest most causal thing to do, send anonymous digital abuse. That’s why I’d ignore it if I was a global mega star. Very different if someone comes up to you in the street (of course, cowards didn’t and won’t) But some sunshine starved simpleton firing texts from their basement bedroom? Nah, I’d not even give them the satisfaction.

Yes I am asking it of you, I mean personalised, aimed directly at you, not at Brighton, or Brighton fans in general, but right up in your personal messages, on your (if you have one) social media where your family and friends see it, attacking YOU personally simply for the colour of your skin, or your sexuality, not about anything you have done or havent done, but just because you have the audacity to exist

You seem to think that it simply needs ignoring for the problem to go away, you even say its better than it was as if that makes it all right. Well it doesnt. The fact that it is better id BECAUSE of the campaigns, and the prosecution of the abusers, not despite it

You seem also to think because its on line it is somehow different, again its not. If we tolerate it on line, it becomes normalised, acvceptable, and so others see it and copy, and it escalates. I am pretty sure if you were to ask any of the players abused on line they would say they are abused personally as well, not just at football matches, but in thier everyday lives

To give you an example, "on line" so for you it doesnt matter- I once had a message to me personally on a fb neighbourhood group saying the person hoped I would die a nasty death as they were posting covid dripping leaflets through my door

Just because that was on line didnt make it any more pleasant

 

[portlock seagull]

Yes I am asking it of you, I mean personalised, aimed directly at you, not at Brighton, or Brighton fans in general, but right up in your personal messages, on your (if you have one) social media where your family and friends see it, attacking YOU personally simply for the colour of your skin, or your sexuality, not about anything you have done or havent done, but just because you have the audacity to exist

You seem to think that it simply needs ignoring for the problem to go away, you even say its better than it was as if that makes it all right. Well it doesnt. The fact that it is better id BECAUSE of the campaigns, and the prosecution of the abusers, not despite it

You seem also to think because its on line it is somehow different, again its not. If we tolerate it on line, it becomes normalised, acvceptable, and so others see it and copy, and it escalates. I am pretty sure if you were to ask any of the players abused on line they would say they are abused personally as well, not just at football matches, but in thier everyday lives

To give you an example, "on line" so for you it doesnt matter- I once had a message to me personally on a fb neighbourhood group saying the person hoped I would die a nasty death as they were posting covid dripping leaflets through my door

Just because that was on line didnt make it any more pleasant

Yes I am asking it of you, I mean personalised, aimed directly at you, not at Brighton, or Brighton fans in general, but right up in your personal messages, on your (if you have one) social media where your family and friends see it, attacking YOU personally simply for the colour of your skin, or your sexuality, not about anything you have done or havent done, but just because you have the audacity to exist

You seem to think that it simply needs ignoring for the problem to go away, you even say its better than it was as if that makes it all right. Well it doesnt. The fact that it is better id BECAUSE of the campaigns, and the prosecution of the abusers, not despite it

You seem also to think because its on line it is somehow different, again its not. If we tolerate it on line, it becomes normalised, acvceptable, and so others see it and copy, and it escalates. I am pretty sure if you were to ask any of the players abused on line they would say they are abused personally as well, not just at football matches, but in thier everyday lives

To give you an example, "on line" so for you it doesnt matter- I once had a message to me personally on a fb neighbourhood group saying the person hoped I would die a nasty death as they were posting covid dripping leaflets through my door

Just because that was on line didnt make it any more pleasant

We’re all subject to hate in our lives. it’s how we deal with it. Done with this thread as you’ve become Mr Angry and casting dispersions / wrongly interpreting (because of)

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Here you go. No. hate crimes per year. it doesn’t include GMP. the data is from Gov.UK.

View attachment 152873

Can you give me the link to that please?

Only ask as it's shocking if it is truly on the rise. Or is it that more is being done to report it and for it to be properly investigated? I hope it's the latter and that those being abused are being listened to and the correct course of action is taking place.

 

[Swansman]

Again, impractical factless argument. You’re living in a utopian parallel if you believe globally online abuse can be stopped. You’re really struggling to understand it’s impossible to stop people from other countries and cultures different to ours from writing online abuse, never mind ours. How do you arrest someone in Libya or China for sending a racist remark via a Tweet to an English PL player for example? Hence my sensible practical suggestion, if I were him, to switch off. Your suggestion is to take on the world. Well, as said to others, good luck with that…let me know how you get on. 200 countries and 8 billion to get round so you’d better crack on. The goal is to get them to all see the world in your eyes remember. Or you leave the chance one of them might send an offensive online comment to you.

Online abuse can and will be stopped.
There was a time with Internet 1.0 where you could do anything you wanted. You could upload maps of secret military locations or gore stuff or child porn or whatever and still have the same chance, through the search engines, to be seen and found as anyone else, and the laws were lagging behind and the tech to trace people down in an effective way wasn't there. If you'd upload maps and photos of secret military locations today, you'd get a very stern telling off very quickly... The technology, the attitudes and the laws changed.

We're now in the end phase of Internet 2.0 and the chaos must turn into order. We've already seen the beginning of it. When a few dozen thousands of us investigated Pizzagate back in 2016 and looked into the friends of those involved and found terrabytes of child porn sharing openly on Twitter... that was shocking, and couldn't happen today. Likewise if you wrote conspiracy stuff or fringe theories on Facebook, nothing would happen, while today you have a fair chance of getting banned or "restricted". And if you post links to football streams etc. on social media, it will get removed - certainly wasn't the case five years ago.

Sometimes the world is a strict one, sometimes its not: were certainly into one of the stricter cycles now: you're not going to be allowed to be a racist anymore. Right or wrong? Nothing is. But the tendency is clear - the time for laissez faire is gone. Companies like Twitter are going to have to develop algorithms that can detect pretty much all racism. There's no technological obstacles and the pressure to solve hate crime on the Internet is steadily increasing. One high-profile case of someone famous suiciding due to Internet abuse, or one of these threats turning into reality, is going to happen sooner rather than later - and it is going to change social media as we know it today.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Online abuse can and will be stopped.
There was a time with Internet 1.0 where you could do anything you wanted. You could upload maps of secret military locations or gore stuff or child porn or whatever and still have the same chance, through the search engines, to be seen and found as anyone else, and the laws were lagging behind and the tech to trace people down in an effective way wasn't there. If you'd upload maps and photos of secret military locations today, you'd get a very stern telling off very quickly... The technology, the attitudes and the laws changed.

We're now in the end phase of Internet 2.0 and the chaos must turn into order. We've already seen the beginning of it. When a few dozen thousands of us investigated Pizzagate back in 2016 and looked into the friends of those involved and found terrabytes of child porn sharing openly on Twitter... that was shocking, and couldn't happen today. Likewise if you wrote conspiracy stuff or fringe theories on Facebook, nothing would happen, while today you have a fair chance of getting banned or "restricted". And if you post links to football streams etc. on social media, it will get removed - certainly wasn't the case five years ago.

Sometimes the world is a strict one, sometimes its not: were certainly into one of the stricter cycles now: you're not going to be allowed to be a racist anymore. Right or wrong? Nothing is. But the tendency is clear - the time for laissez faire is gone. Companies like Twitter are going to have to develop algorithms that can detect pretty much all racism. There's no technological obstacles and the pressure to solve hate crime on the Internet is steadily increasing. One high-profile case of someone famous suiciding due to Internet abuse, or one of these threats turning into reality, is going to happen sooner rather than later - and it is going to change social media as we know it today.

Sometimes you're batshit crazy, Sometimes you are right on the button. I think generally you hit in the rough direction you aim

 

[Whoislloydy]

Twitter is a nasty place, so many people condemning Toney for outing him?! What the actual f*ck is wrong with these people.

He's not a kid, he knows exactly what he said and deserves everything that's coming to him.

 

[portslade seagull]

Until the respective governments go after the internet providers that seem to allow this abuse it will never stop. They need to receive very big fines to make it in their best interests to stop it

 

[Weststander]

Hate crimes have been steadily increasing in general. Recent news articles about this on disabled folk.

Worryingly the perpetrators often seem young. A subclass of thick as shite morons emboldened by ‘anything goes’ on the internet?

 

[Springal]

Until the respective governments go after the internet providers that seem to allow this abuse it will never stop. They need to receive very big fines to make it in their best interests to stop it

Ridiculous thing to say. Go after the platforms that don’t act on it.

 

[Swansman]

Hate crimes have been steadily increasing in general. Recent news articles about this on disabled folk.

Worryingly the perpetrators often seem young. A subclass of thick as shite morons emboldened by ‘anything goes’ on the internet?

If you've spent 80% of your free time in front of a tablet/cellphone since the age of 5 or so, you're quite likely going to have a pretty low level of empathy and emotional intelligence. You learn about not being mean to people through actually being mean as a kid and then observe and feel the reactions of whoever you were mean to. If you spend all day playing games or watching cartoons, you're not going to experience the consequences of treating others poorly.

 

[Weststander]

If you've spent 80% of your free time in front of a tablet/cellphone since the age of 5 or so, you're quite likely going to have a pretty low level of empathy and emotional intelligence. You learn about not being mean to people through actually being mean as a kid and then observe and feel the reactions of whoever you were mean to. If you spend all day playing games or watching cartoons, you're not going to experience the consequences of treating others poorly.

It’s interesting how the effect appears to be worse than TV. I was brought up in the 70’s, TV was big by then, it was easy for parents to opt for easy parenting by leaving kids transfixed by TV.

My hunch is that the regulation of our just 3 TV channels at that time left harmless content. Plus there was something about TV, that you’d wander off and do real world things. The internet is incredibly addictive as we all know, with unfettered content.

 

[Swansman]

It’s interesting how the effect appears to be worse than TV. I was brought up in the 70’s, TV was big by then, it was easy for parents to opt for easy parenting by leaving kids transfixed by TV.

My hunch is that the regulation of our just 3 TV channels at that time left harmless content. Plus there was something about TV, that you’d wander off and so real world things. The internet is incredibly addictive as we all know, with unfettered content.

Very difficult to compare with TV (other than in a few regards)... yes, people spent a shiteload of time in front of it but you couldn't take it with you wherever you went, it wasn't interactive and it wasn't shaped for you individually to get addicted to it.

 

[Deportivo Seagull]

Can you give me the link to that please?

Only ask as it's shocking if it is truly on the rise. Or is it that more is being done to report it and for it to be properly investigated? I hope it's the latter and that those being abused are being listened to and the correct course of action is taking place.

If you search for ‘Hate crime, England and Wales, 2020 to 2021‘ it will take you to the relevant article on Gov.uk

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

If you search for ‘Hate crime, England and Wales, 2020 to 2021‘ it will take you to the relevant article on Gov.uk

Indeed the devil is in the detail so to speak. Better reporting systems indicate a rise but in fact that metric can't be used accurately . To me the fact it appears more crime is being reported and hopefully acted upon is the only positive from those figures.

 

[Eeyore]

Here you go. No. hate crimes per year. it doesn’t include GMP. the data is from Gov.UK.

View attachment 152873

It's hard to know the increase in relative terms. One of the reasons there has been a dramatic increase is because more folk are reporting such incidents nowadays. Victims of homophobic hate crime, as an example, feel more that if they come forward they will be taken seriously.

That said, the statistics have a degree of irrelevance. I don't know if in real terms it is any worse, but that doesn't matter. It is still a problem.