its the slippery slope

[glasfryn]

Paul Burstow has started the ball rolling on the £200 allowance for winter fuel should we as OAP's continue to get it even if we are rich and able to pay for fuel or should they lose it or give it to someone else who cannot afford the heat their homes in the winter.

IMHO this is the start of the slippery slope to getting rid of the allowance altogether.

discuss sensibly

 

[BLOCK F]

Got a feeling the means testing would probably cost a large proportion of any money saved.Not really that coest effective.
If there are people in this country who cannot afford to heat their homes adequately,and there undoubtably are,then let us cut the Overseas Aid Programme and begin to look after our own first.
It is quite ludicrous when all Government departments face cuts,that we actually increase the overseas aid programme.

 

[albion534]

What makes me laugh is when people like Alan sugar try to give it back, and can't as it's in the system? If the system sees somebody of a certain age earning a decent amount, it should be cut....

 

[glasfryn]

I could not believe what I was hearing on the radio this morning ....that some of the people coming into Britain are being paid allowances for children that they have left behind in their own country, yet we have people living on our streets ...some very decent people who are there because of not fault of their own

 

[Kumquat]

What makes me laugh is when people like Alan sugar try to give it back, and can't as it's in the system? If the system sees somebody of a certain age earning a decent amount, it should be cut....

That was exactly my thought. The whole thing is inherently unfair.

 

[The Andy Naylor Fan Club]

I think the whole winter fuel allowance should be stopped and replaced with a system built around paying the gas and electric bills for November through to February in full for those pensioners who cannot afford their energy costs over the winter period. To take that burden and pressure away from them will hopefully allow them to cook hot food and keep warm during those months without the worry of cost and allow more of them to survive the cold winters.To me benefits are there to provide assistance to those who most need it and not those who can get by without them.

 

[Cadiz Seagull]

It doesn't make any sense that people like me who live in a warm climate where energy bills are a fraction of what they are in the UK should get the winter fuel allowance. I received mine just before Christmas.

The system should be changed so that people who don't want it can opt out, maybe redirecting the money to charity. OK this will involve some expense but it will be a hell of a lot cheaper than means testing.

We are only talking about 200 quid, and means testing everybody who qualifies by age will cost a fair proportion of that amount. An opt out will cost peanuts by comparison.

 

[HawkTheSeagull]

Should be limited to how much income you have and how much you have saved.

Sorting something with that free bus pass would save a lot of money too, keeping the card and just charging half fare instead would be better - friends of the family who are OAPs have said they would be fine with this.

Not to mention it would prevent the need for fare rises for everyone else.

 

[severnside gull]

trouble with means testing is that being seen to be fair can cost as much if not more than it saves.

The extent of the reduction proposed might just as well cut it completely - the saving certainly wont be redirected as suggested to elderly care services - it will just be a saving (and realistically not as much a one as suggested).

Unfortunately people tend not to appreciate that as you get older your fuel bills tend to increase disproportionately as you feel the cold more and are more susceptible to hypothermia

 

[beorhthelm]

trouble with means testing is that being seen to be fair costs as much if not more than it saves.

that depends on how you do it. if its simply a taxable benefit then some would automatically be clawed back. making it opt in through your utility supplier would make it trivial but not please the "mustn't stigmatise people" brigade (which is a issue from two generations ago, most of who have left us now). its time to stop being sentimental and be pragmatic, these benefits are supposed to address problems so let them do so. the era of automatic and universal benefits has to end, all benefits should be taxed and means tested, with proper systems planned to get rid of the silly complications (see child benefit changes).

 

[Pavilionaire]

Means-testing something as small as £200 p.a. would be bureaucracy gone mad. It would have been quicker, cheaper and easier to put £200 on everyone's Old Age Pension and to highlight in red on the annual letter "Winter Fuel Supplement". But then state pension is taxable, while the £200 fuel payment isn't, so they've tied their hands over that.

 

[BensGrandad]

I cannot understand why they say means testing is too expensive as pensioners are means tested to decide if they need more money than their basic state pension so the simple answer is that people who qualify for that also qualify for fuel allowance if they don't qualify for one they don't get the other.

 

[severnside gull]

that depends on how you do it. if its simply a taxable benefit then some would automatically be clawed back. making it opt in through your utility supplier would make it trivial but not please the "mustn't stigmatise people" brigade (which is a issue from two generations ago, most of who have left us now). its time to stop being sentimental and be pragmatic, these benefits are supposed to address problems so let them do so. the era of automatic and universal benefits has to end, all benefits should be taxed and means tested, with proper systems planned to get rid of the silly complications (see child benefit changes).

making benefits taxable makes sense but would recover nowhere near as much as the tories intend. Their main intent currently appears to be to stigmatise all benefits recipients with a long term view to stop all state benefits. It would be a new world but would it be a brave one? Thankfully I will be gone before it happens

 

[severnside gull]

I cannot understand why they say means testing is too expensive as pensioners are means tested to decide if they need more money than their basic state pension so the simple answer is that people who qualify for that also qualify for fuel allowance if they don't qualify for one they don't get the other.

that is the proposal based on pension credit (ie those in greatest need). It discounts those who are in need but marginally less so. Old age makes people easy tagets for cold weather and ill health but it also makes them more susceptible to politicians!

 

[RexCathedra]

Their main intent currently appears to be to stigmatise all benefits recipients with a long term view to stop all state benefits.

Look at the difference between political support for Medicaid in the US (means-tested, state-Federal) and Medicare (blanket coverage for +65, Federal). Cutting the first is a campaign pledge for every GOP gubernatorial candidate, promising to cut the latter is the kiss of death in a national election.

The genius of the NHS is that you can't point your finger at the people taking advantage of it because there's one of them on each end of the arm you're using to point.

 

[clippedgull]

Got a feeling the means testing would probably cost a large proportion of any money saved.Not really that coest effective.
If there are people in this country who cannot afford to heat their homes adequately,and there undoubtably are,then let us cut the Overseas Aid Programme and begin to look after our own first.
It is quite ludicrous when all Government departments face cuts,that we actually increase the overseas aid programme.

This 100%.

It's a disgrace that people in one of the richest economies in the World should be unable to heat their homes through lack of income.

 

[TWOCHOICEStom]

I think if you allowed people to be honest and give it back you'd get a hell of a lot of cash back in the pot.

I agree with many on here, how people can die because of cold in this country is beyond me.

 

[nail-Z]

Qualifying people should be asked to apply for a winter fuel allowance. ie. an opt IN.

To those that don't need it, the pains of opting in would outweigh the financial benefit, but those in genuine need would certainly find the time.

 

[withdeanwombat]

Should be limited to how much income you have and how much you have saved.

Please explain why people who have saved should have this benefit withdrawn ?

 

[withdeanwombat]

Mine went on Glen Ord and caviar,and I was very warm indeed.