[Football] It's called getting older

[Carlos BC]

Everything is bad

 

[METALMICKY]

Since there is a proliferation of threads bemoaning the state of football and how nasty it is, being in the premier league, I thought I'd start a counter thread about this.

It's called getting older, jaded, sadder, creakier, more irritable etc.

Pull you bloody selves together, FFS!

Ridiculous statement just trying to be provocative. Never mind what's happening around our club I'm not witnessing hoards of 20 something fans rejoicing at the introduction of VAR and the good it's done for the game.

 

[chickens]

I'm very lucky that I seem to be immune to developing grumpy old man syndrome. Arguably I was a grumpy young man, which is why I don't perceive that things are getting 'worse'.

But I have always understood that things really are getting better, rather than worse, as poor old @sydney seems to think. I have had arguments with people who are so taken by the idea that things are getting worse that they actually think we are unhealthier than the Victorians, even claiming the Victorians lived longer. Completely deluded.

In 'History of Western Philosophy' written in the 30s by Bertrand Russell, he wrote about grumpy old man syndrome as a phenomenon recognized even in the days of the ancient Greeks, with generation after generation complaining about how everything is turning to bollocks (and mostly blaming this on the 'yoof of today').

This is actually quite important. Effecting change requires an accurate assessment of what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. The future of The Albion won't be made more secure if people imagine that these are the worst of all times, and the club is a mess/disgrace or whatever.

While I agree with you on it being impossible to improve a situation without first correctly identifying what’s wrong with where we are. I don’t think the complaints are so much about the club, more the environment the club exists in.

If anything, I’d guess the roots of our dissatisfaction go back to the 2008 financial crisis, which was bad enough for people who wouldn’t normally think about economics to try and learn a bit. Before this, most of the world was content to not see the plumbing around the global financial system, and assume it would just go on doing its job. It was only when something went wrong people noticed it, and once noticed, you can’t then regain your innocence.

In this case I’d argue we’re absolutely not blaming “the yoof”, we’re looking at our politicians and “captains of industry” and wondering whose benefit this is all for. Some of us would like a bit more civilization in our civilization.

P.s. I dimly remember reading “A History of Western Philosophy” which I enjoyed, but was one hell of a tome to get through. It got progressively harder work as the philosophers themselves became progressively harder work. I felt the earliest sections of the book were the most fun. It all seemed really interesting until Christianity started throwing its weight about. After that, I remember feeling I’d have liked Spinoza but the rest (excepting B. Russell himself of course) could all go to hell.

 

[Change at Barnham]

Travelling to games isn't as much fun as it used to be.
There's far more traffic on the road to contend with, parking a car is always challenging. Public transport is worse.

Once at the various stadiums things are safer and more comfortable with the best toilets and mostly catering has improved.
But as a % of disposable income it feels more expensive.

If we could just sort out the transport, I'd be happy.

 

[METALMICKY]

I don't think it is an age thing. There are loads of things that are better than 30-40 years ago, i.e. less racism, less sexism, less smoking, society more health conscious BUT the dominance of the Big 6 clubs - and the larger European clubs - is a bad thing and it's getting worse.

I agree with Attila that MONEY is killing football, and any time a club outside of this produces a world class player, a crop of youngsters or a sustained level of quality recruitment they are plundered by the Big 6.

This applies to clubs in 7th-12th spots just as much: imagine what West Ham could have achieved with Joe Cole, Carrick, Lampard, Rio, Defoe and Glen Johnson, or Southampton with VVD, Lallana, Mane, Hojbjerg, Lovren, Shaw. Maybe Everton could have built a team around Rooney or Villa around Grealish? All 4 clubs potless since the mid-90s.

I think Attilla's goldfish and water analogy has resonated with a lot of people. But we plough on because we have that passion for Albion through thick and thin and supporting them has been part of our lives.

 

[Brovion]

...

But I have always understood that things really are getting better, rather than worse, as poor old @sydney seems to think. I have had arguments with people who are so taken by the idea that things are getting worse that they actually think we are unhealthier than the Victorians, even claiming the Victorians lived longer. Completely deluded.

...

What about the climate eh? eh? That's getting worse!

But no, overall I agree with you, our lives overall are way better than in the Victorian era, but football ..... well I do think sydney has a point. Yes in a lot of respects football IS better than the violent, racist slum sport it was in the 1970s, but it's lost a lot of its soul in the process as well (IMO). And for the record I love the fact we're in the Prem and I'd hate to get relegated.

 

[Cowfold Seagull]

Since there is a proliferation of threads bemoaning the state of football and how nasty it is, being in the premier league, I thought I'd start a counter thread about this.

It's called getting older, jaded, sadder, creakier, more irritable etc.

Pull you bloody selves together, FFS!

Indeed.

Maybe what we should really be asking ourselves is . . . has football changed, or have we changed?

 

[raymondo]

I can put up with managers going players coming and going back room staff going what’s really grinding me is the inept refs and the state of VAR. Last Saturday my phone took a flight across the room when the pen was awarded. The first goal was 50/50 but that pen was disgraceful I can’t remember a game restarting and then pulled back for a pen 4 minutes later. Why Mason is anywhere near a PL game is another question that needs answers.

I dunno which idiots are more dangerous, in the centre or on VAR

 

[Sirnormangall]

no it isn't ...it's called having a gut full of the bollox that comes with the game ...VAR , SOUTHGATE, MAGUIRE still wearing an England shirt , useless referees , wanky pundits , stupid graphics , endless, pointless statistics , 200 quid for a day out , train strikes , stupid stewards , stupid people , grass , flags , pigeons, twatts who won't sing , people constantly moaning , managers f***ing off in the middle of "being in it for the long run" not on their own but taking the entire back room staff with them , players getting paid what it takes your average working man 10 years to earn in one week , agents getting paid for f*** all.......it's f***ed.

You missed out early leavers and bans on thermos flasks

 

[Perfidious Albion]

I am sure that there is some truth in all these comments. Old men do get grumpy and hanker for things as they used to be.
Having said that, many things were better , and simpler in the past , Don’t let them tell you different.

 

[Leekbrookgull]

Have to say the O/P has a point in as for me those dark days of A,B and Stanley i have never felt more Albion when like at Carlisle, Mansfield and the Rochdale match,there was no manager/player argument it all about one thing.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Rose tinted glasses really do exist.

I remember the late 60's/early 70's and it was all shit, never mind Victorian times. TV, Radio, having to go down the road to make a phone call, Pubs, Nightclubs, Football, hanging around for hours waiting to meet someone you had arranged with the week before, Food, Public Transport, Jobs, Clothes, Holidays (caravan in Great Yarmouth if you were lucky), Drugs, Beer, the very idea of going out to eat and finding anything other than an Angus Steakhouse with a choice of Bull's blood or Blue Nun, and if you were BAME, LGBTQ, any minority or in any way different ? Trust me, it was truly shit

But to balance all of this out, music in the late 70s was better and that's FACT

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I don't think it is an age thing. There are loads of things that are better than 30-40 years ago, i.e. less racism, less sexism, less smoking, society more health conscious BUT the dominance of the Big 6 clubs - and the larger European clubs - is a bad thing and it's getting worse.

I agree with Attila that MONEY is killing football, and any time a club outside of this produces a world class player, a crop of youngsters or a sustained level of quality recruitment they are plundered by the Big 6.

This applies to clubs in 7th-12th spots just as much: imagine what West Ham could have achieved with Joe Cole, Carrick, Lampard, Rio, Defoe and Glen Johnson, or Southampton with VVD, Lallana, Mane, Hojbjerg, Lovren, Shaw. Maybe Everton could have built a team around Rooney or Villa around Grealish? All 4 clubs potless since the mid-90s.

That's fine. The age thing was aimed at those for whom it is . . . an age thing, and who seem to think that everything is turning to shite. Regular NSC posters too

I am not disputing that individual issues in life can go into reverse, and there are often anomalies in the trajectory (of every day in every way everything is getting better and better), and certain aspects of human activity can get into a pickle. Then a reboot may be needed. In politics, this is done by booting out the failing governments. One of the few human institutions where institutional inertia cannot be permanent (unless you subscribe to the idea that all political parties are the same).

Anyway, as I posted in reply to Attila, what isn't clear is what to do about the current dominance of the big six*. I mentioned restricting ownership to British only, and then got stuck.

*I must admit I did smile when I typed that. The big six. Ten years ago it was the big 4. Before that, the big 2. Before that, it was Liverpool.

I can see people moaning about the dominance of the big ten in a couple of years.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Rose tinted glasses really do exist.

I remember the late 60's/early 70's and it was all shit, never mind Victorian times. TV, Radio, having to go down the road to make a phone call, Pubs, Nightclubs, Football, hanging around for hours waiting to meet someone you had arranged with the week before, Food, Public Transport, Jobs, Clothes, Holidays (caravan in Great Yarmouth if you were lucky), Drugs, Beer, the very idea of going out to eat and finding anything other than an Angus Steakhouse with a choice of Bull's blood or Blue Nun, and if you were BAME, LGBTQ, any minority or in any way different ? Trust me, it was truly shit

But to balance all of this out, music in the late 70s was better and that's FACT

I went through a phase in the late 80s of embedding myself in music of the past (79-85 for me) then in the 90s gave my head a wobble, and embraced the new. Most of the music I listen to today is new (uploaded to you tube in the last 5 years). I love a bit of musical nostalgia, but in truth there is more and better music being made today than ever before. I appreciate your comment is tongue in cheek, but secretly this is probably what you really think, too

 

[Weststander]

Rose tinted glasses really do exist.

I remember the late 60's/early 70's and it was all shit, never mind Victorian times. TV, Radio, having to go down the road to make a phone call, Pubs, Nightclubs, Football, hanging around for hours waiting to meet someone you had arranged with the week before, Food, Public Transport, Jobs, Clothes, Holidays (caravan in Great Yarmouth if you were lucky), Drugs, Beer, the very idea of going out to eat and finding anything other than an Angus Steakhouse with a choice of Bull's blood or Blue Nun, and if you were BAME, LGBTQ, any minority or in any way different ? Trust me, it was truly shit

But to balance all of this out, there was some good music in the late 70s and that's FACT

All true. @HWT and myself have often pointed out how run down things were in the 70’s. The country never really back on track post WW2 debt, coastal resorts were run down from Brits flying to the Med instead. Lots of things in Brighton and Hove were broken, Peter Pan’s the highlight east of the Palace Pier, two councils in impasse over the West Pier, broken fountains, some buildings in the town centre were empty shells, scruffy open air parking on old bomb sites, freezing cold North Road Baths our main pool. Strikes, crap management, staff still had to be ultra subservient to bosses, very low pay for teens/20’s/trainees.

Lots of punk, Ska, New Wave musicians mention the despair as the inspiration for their songs.

Add waiting at the Wishing Well for the Skandi who’d changed her mind, b1tch.

It was hellish.

 

[southstandandy]

I love my football. I just can't afford it anymore, but I accept that's life. No complaints from me.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Add waiting at the Wishing Well for the Skandi who’d changed her mind, b1tch.

It was hellish.

Pleased to know it wasn't just me then

And could you imagine trying to get a skimmed organic Himalayan Yak's milk Latte on the Prom ? More chance of getting stabbed on the prom after dark in the 70s

I went through a phase in the late 80s of embedding myself in music of the past (79-85 for me) then in the 90s gave my head a wobble, and embraced the new. Most of the music I listen to today is new (uploaded to you tube in the last 5 years). I love a bit of musical nostalgia, but in truth there is more and better music being made today than ever before. I appreciate your comment is tongue in cheek, but secretly this is probably what you really think, too

You know me too well Harry

 

[deslynhamsmoustache1]

Every generation harks back to a golden age that never was. We crave a destination when often the journey is far more enjoyable and rewarding.
Someone once said, "the problem with youthfulness is that its wasted on the youth". Now in my mid fifties I feel the Victor Meldrew rising within me more than I could rationally explain.

 

[SeagullsoverLondon]

*I must admit I did smile when I typed that. The big six. Ten years ago it was the big 4. Before that, the big 2. Before that, it was Liverpool.

I can see people moaning about the dominance of the big ten in a couple of years.

I think the "big four" idea came about when the Champions League started with then 2 or 3 places up for grabs.
I am not convinced there can be a sustainable Big 7, 8, 9 or 10 there's not enough trophies or rewards, i.e European football to go round
We know Newcastle are trying to muscle in, but unless a super League comes about, a few of the "Big" teams won't stay "Big" for ever.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Every generation harks back to a golden age that never was. We crave a destination when often the journey is far more enjoyable and rewarding.
Someone once said, "the problem with youthfulness is that its wasted on the youth". Now in my mid fifties I feel the Victor Meldrew rising within me more than I could rationally explain.

Welcome to NSC with what appears to be a very mature, well balanced first post. Are you sure you've got the right forum

*edit* I've just seen the '1' doesn't refer to number of posts Does that mean there was already a deslynhamsmoustache account when you registered all those years ago ?