[Football] Italy V England Final.

[CliveWalkerWingWizard]

The penalty misses are a distraction from the way we went from looking a very good side at the start of the match to a rudderless ship by the end. Whose fault was that, the players not being good enough to keep it up or the manager not being good enough to change tactics and players mid match? Maybe a combination of both

I really feel for those who had their dreams shattered, so much enthusiasm and hope at the start. I kind of expected it but I was very definitely wowed and impressed by our start and wondered if just…maybe

No doubt in my mind that the right team won though

I am not going to criticise Southgate too much because the pragmatic approach got us to the final, so no surprise he continued. I actually thought when we scored it was too early. We were scared to try and play around the high press, Southgate should have changed the shape earlier in the second half rather than the backs to the wall. We should have sacrificed Philips for Grealish. But the manager makes the call, if it comes off is is a hero. I am hoping that we will be braver, with Bellingham Sancho Grealish and Foden we have some potential world class talent. Southgate will stay, he needs to change the style now so that teams are scared of us.

 

[herecomesaregular]

The penalty misses are a distraction from the way we went from looking a very good side at the start of the match to a rudderless ship by the end. Whose fault was that, the players not being good enough to keep it up or the manager not being good enough to change tactics and players mid match? Maybe a combination of both

I really feel for those who had their dreams shattered, so much enthusiasm and hope at the start. I kind of expected it but I was very definitely wowed and impressed by our start and wondered if just…maybe

No doubt in my mind that the right team won though

Pretty much this. I was amazed how we cut them open (Kane in particular) in the opening stages and was thinking omg we can win this. Italy were poor. But great credit to them they turned it round 100% and "rudderless" is the best description of us after 30 mins or so,

 

[Guinness Boy]

Nice to be remembered. Sorry to disappoint you and dog but did not get his walk until after game. Too bigger game that could always go either way. Yes whilst enjoyed the tournament I do still in general get far more involved when watching Brighton games . Of course also not allowed to take the dog to amex

And yet, for someone who was going to walk the dog during the quiet bits of the final you apparently went to the semi, where tickets for a game that you do not feel that involved in would have set you back a minimum of 85 Euros but more likely between 3 and 500?

Albion saying because of track and trace and covid they want to go over to entry by smart phone yet I was able to enter with my ticket last night with 60k others. Is this by Albion just to make sure people cannot hand ticket to somebody else. Last night my friend could not go and my brother came no problem.

 

[HantsSeagull]

got to say Southgate did a good job getting us to a final but, like others, i think tactics and substitutions let him down. Too negative, too late, too slow to react, etc

cant defend a 1-0 lead from minute 2 against teams like Italy. From minute 60 we should have been changing players to take the game to them. Saka for Trippier wasnt nearly enough. Saka did nothing anyway.

dont even start me on bringing on penalty takers for the last minute of extra time. not cool.

 

[PILTDOWN MAN]

Pretty much this. I was amazed how we cut them open (Kane in particular) in the opening stages and was thinking omg we can win this. Italy were poor. But great credit to them they turned it round 100% and "rudderless" is the best description of us after 30 mins or so,

You're right about what Kane did in the first 30, after that he was barely in picture jogging about. He should have taken Kane off he offered nothing after halftime.

 

[GrizzlingGammon]

The penalty misses are a distraction from the way we went from looking a very good side at the start of the match to a rudderless ship by the end. Whose fault was that, the players not being good enough to keep it up or the manager not being good enough to change tactics and players mid match? Maybe a combination of both

I really feel for those who had their dreams shattered, so much enthusiasm and hope at the start. I kind of expected it but I was very definitely wowed and impressed by our start and wondered if just…maybe

No doubt in my mind that the right team won though

I agree with all of this.

The first 20 minutes England were great. Then Italy started to get into it. Mancini's tactical halftime subs were the key turning point. England just couldn't compete.

Performance wise the right team won.

 

[raymondo]

As great a keeper that Pickford is, his obsession with banging the ball as far down the pitch and landing it just short of the goalkeeper was brainless to me.

Italy started playing a high line and we couldn’t pass along the back as we had been doing throughout the tournament so therefore the ball was passed back and Pickford hoofing it to no one apart from their centre backs.
5
I could not understand our “ tactics ” after we scored.

But take nothing away from Italy who can’t be that far off the best team in the world at the moment.

How Jorginho stayed on the pitch when he tried to end Grealish’s career is beyond me though.

I agree with everything you say except re Jorginho: to me, it was an accident, yes his studs were showing, but slipped off the ball...no way did he purposely plant his studs on Grealish leg. Yellow card was right for me.

 

[darkwolf666]

Ignoring the finishing position and keeping it to a very simple question do you think Southgate achieved the best result he could with this collection of players?

I acknowledge he has done well and is very good at the man management and diplomacy side of management but tactically he has repeated the same errors repeatedly and is stuck in a defensive mentality when we have a squad strong on attacking players.

The one factor out of his hands that does worry me going forward is midfield, the Italians absolutely dominated us in midfield even after the substitutions and when you look at the midfielders in the Premier League the options are very limited for English talent. 2 holding midfielders in front of a back 5 is OK against lesser teams but not the way to beat the top teams and never will be but I acknowledge the options are very limited from what I have seem Mount is not the answer and as for calling Phillips the Yorkshire Pirlo well that has been proven to be wide of the mark. If Brighton want to make big bucks on the next academy success we need to be scouring this country for a quality box to box midfielder.

Just maybe it wasn't about tactical decisions, just maybe Italy were the better team with better players?

 

[Lethargic]

Just maybe it wasn't about tactical decisions, just maybe Italy were the better team with better players?

You could be right about Italy being the better team but if you don't give it a go you will never know, we will have to agree to disagree on the tactics.

 

[Lyndhurst 14]

Southgate and the team did us proud. It's just a shame we missed this opportunity as everything was in perfect alignment; best team we've had in years, the games played at Wembley and the support of the crowd.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Sadly it reminded me of Croatia in the World Cup. We started well but the opposition adjusted and dominated, while we didn't have the tactical flexibility to counter. I hoped adding Graeme Jones to the coaching mix might have made a difference, but in the end it wasn't enough. That said, if Rashford hits the target and we go 3-2 ahead, who knows?

 

[Mackenzie]

Sadly it reminded me of Croatia in the World Cup. We started well but the opposition adjusted and dominated, while we didn't have the tactical flexibility to counter. I hoped adding Graeme Jones to the coaching mix might have made a difference, but in the end it wasn't enough. That said, if Rashford hits the target and we go 3-2 ahead, who knows?

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw him at Brighton in the future.

 

[nwgull]

Oh, I have no doubt the FA will want to keep Southgate on. I was more worried last night if he was going to walk.

Nah, he's only 50 and effectively started this project 8 years ago when he took the job with the U21s and has had relative success with every competitive competition in which he's managed - WC semis, Nations League semis and Euro runners up. None of the current crop of players will be retiring before the next 2 major tournaments (and with some real talent bubbling under the surface) so I'm sure he'll see this as a work in progress.

 

[Acker79]

[tweet]1414522271859888132[/tweet]

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

[tweet]1414522271859888132[/tweet]

This is so weird, has Saka ever taken a pen in as a pro?

 

[dwayne]

This is so weird, has Saka ever taken a pen in as a pro?

Southgate just doesn't seem to like grealish. Dunno why, especially as a villa man.

Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

 

[SeagullinExile]

Southgate gets his tactics horribly wrong yet again. Sure, he seems like a nice bloke but he's no tactical genius thats for sure.

Time to make way Gareth.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Just maybe it wasn't about tactical decisions, just maybe Italy were the better team with better players?

It was 1-1 over 120mins - so actually neither team can really claim to be better either way. The result therefore came down to very fine margins throughout the contest, a sub here, a change in tactics there could have been the difference. Not sure you can hide away from that.

 

[Jim D]

Sadly it reminded me of Croatia in the World Cup. We started well but the opposition adjusted and dominated, while we didn't have the tactical flexibility to counter. I hoped adding Graeme Jones to the coaching mix might have made a difference, but in the end it wasn't enough. That said, if Rashford hits the target and we go 3-2 ahead, who knows?

If Rashford scores I say we win. It would take all the pressure off Sancho and Sako probably wouldn't even have had to take one.

 

[darkwolf666]

It was 1-1 over 120mins - so actually neither team can really claim to be better either way. The result therefore came down to very fine margins throughout the contest, a sub here, a change in tactics there could have been the difference. Not sure you can hide away from that.

I didn't say Italy were the better team, putting the "maybe" in as an indication that it was a possibility that it wasn't just down to tactics.

If the penalties had gone in would we be having an inquest and suggestions to sack Gareth Southgate?

Like you say fine margins!