It didn't take us long to forget Garcia did it!

[Eeyore]

Oscar hasn't been forgotten, nor have any other of our managers. The conversation just moves on.

 

[Pavilionaire]

It's worth remembering that in the decade or so before Gus we'd had a lot of managers resign for a "bigger" job, so after Gus we didn't know what we were going to get. The fact we got Oscar to join with his Barcelona pedigree / Cruyff links helped confirm we were a top-level Championship club with good connections still able to attract quality managers.

Making the play-offs cemented our credentials as contenders, hence we get Hyypia. Go in peace Oscar, I feel our club has gone forward under him in terms of proving we are not a one-season 'big budget' wonder but will be regularly knocking on the Prem door as a club from now on.

 

[strings]

It's worth remembering that in the decade or so before Gus we'd had a lot of managers resign for a "bigger" job, so after Gus we didn't know what we were going to get. The fact we got Oscar to join with his Barcelona pedigree / Cruyff links helped confirm we were a top-level Championship club with good connections still able to attract quality managers.

Making the play-offs cemented our credentials as contenders, hence we get Hyypia. Go in peace Oscar, I feel our club has gone forward under him in terms of proving we are not a one-season 'big budget' wonder but will be regularly knocking on the Prem door as a club from now on.

I like this post (if only NSC had some kinds of thumbs up device...).

I think you are right, it takes a talented manager (or someone with a mahoosive budget) to take a club to the play-offs. But to repeat the feat is more difficult. Oscar, without shouting about it, proved that we weren't just a one-season wonder.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Of course we would have been stronger, but you have to react to the cards dealt. Ward had been a revelation so why move him over, Calderon was struggling anyway, so playing Chicksen at RB wouldn't have made things any worse, and Calderon has played CB before.

Of course you can't attack for 90 minutes, but it is equally wearing chasing back all the time if you are Derby. We did not give Derby enough to think about and by pressuring the ball, you may get caught but you make them make a decision, and we did not do that.

But your point of 'if the game was close', going for it, a 3-1 down, it wasn't close so why not go for it then?

Other than Ulloa's miss before half-time, I think our next shot may well have been Kaz's goal.
See my other discussion on this thread the line-up was wrong as well (IMO).

Greer went off on 24 minutes with the aggregate score of 2-1, it was another 10 minutes before they went ahead 3-1.

Had Greer stayed on and played the full match, we would have been more solid at the back and able to push on more as the game wore on. We would still have 3 subs to make but as soon as Greer went off, one of CMS, Lua Lua and March was going to miss out.

You can argue that none of the following were match fit and in form: Buckley, Lua Lua, Orlandi, CMS so they couldn't all start or all come on and they were our main make a difference players. I always felt they needed about 5 more games before we reached the play-offs to get back to where they would like to have been in terms of fitness, etc.

We had hoped to get the best out of these players over part of the game but with the possibility of injury time if the aggregate score was 2-2, you could have players who couldn't last, even if subbed on for players who had run out of steam themselves.

At 3-1 down, we tried but just were outclassed by a better team on the day, they got their tails up when it went 3-1 and they just went for it as we struggled to match them. Sometimes you just need to credit the opposition and say there was nothing you could do about it and this is one of those cases. Fate conspired against us, at no point had we needed to play 2 different CBs to Greer and Upson at the same time and, after losing El-Abd (for perfectly acceptable reasons) we struggled to bring in a replacement (it may be simply there were no players who were better than we had left available to sign and or wanted to come to us.

Garcia did well to get us to where he did in the circumstances, it wasn't always entertaining to watch but it was almost just as effective as Poyet in the final standings and without half of the key players Poyet had at his disposal. Would Poyet have got to the same place in the league with the same circumstances, i'm not so sure (rememeber how many draws we had under Poyet)

 

[Tarpon]

Greer went off on 24 minutes with the aggregate score of 2-1, it was another 10 minutes before they went ahead 3-1.

Had Greer stayed on and played the full match, we would have been more solid at the back and able to push on more as the game wore on. We would still have 3 subs to make but as soon as Greer went off, one of CMS, Lua Lua and March was going to miss out.

You can argue that none of the following were match fit and in form: Buckley, Lua Lua, Orlandi, CMS so they couldn't all start or all come on and they were our main make a difference players. I always felt they needed about 5 more games before we reached the play-offs to get back to where they would like to have been in terms of fitness, etc.

We had hoped to get the best out of these players over part of the game but with the possibility of injury time if the aggregate score was 2-2, you could have players who couldn't last, even if subbed on for players who had run out of steam themselves.

At 3-1 down, we tried but just were outclassed by a better team on the day, they got their tails up when it went 3-1 and they just went for it as we struggled to match them. Sometimes you just need to credit the opposition and say there was nothing you could do about it and this is one of those cases. Fate conspired against us, at no point had we needed to play 2 different CBs to Greer and Upson at the same time and, after losing El-Abd (for perfectly acceptable reasons) we struggled to bring in a replacement (it may be simply there were no players who were better than we had left available to sign and or wanted to come to us.

Garcia did well to get us to where he did in the circumstances, it wasn't always entertaining to watch but it was almost just as effective as Poyet in the final standings and without half of the key players Poyet had at his disposal. Would Poyet have got to the same place in the league with the same circumstances, i'm not so sure (rememeber how many draws we had under Poyet)

I was just about to say that! Great post.

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Greer went off on 24 minutes with the aggregate score of 2-1, it was another 10 minutes before they went ahead 3-1.

Had Greer stayed on and played the full match, we would have been more solid at the back and able to push on more as the game wore on. We would still have 3 subs to make but as soon as Greer went off, one of CMS, Lua Lua and March was going to miss out.

Garcia did well to get us to where he did in the circumstances, it wasn't always entertaining to watch but it was almost just as effective as Poyet in the final standings and without half of the key players Poyet had at his disposal. Would Poyet have got to the same place in the league with the same circumstances, i'm not so sure (rememeber how many draws we had under Poyet)

Yes, but at 3-1 down at half-time Oscar should have said we need to go for it.

Re Greer and Upson all very hypothetical, you like to think it would happen and I agree it is likely that is how Oscar would have like to have operated. But the bottom line is, the injuries did happen, and despite being 3-1 down at no time did we change our tactics. As I said I would have pushed higher from the start in any case. All sitting back did was let Derby get into a rhythm.

I think Oscar probably did do quite well given the injuries he had for half of the season, but the football was largely dire, unentertaining and uninspiring.

 

[Milano]

It could also be argued that the injuries provided a convenient mitigation for Garcia and masked the fact he was out of his depth.
His tactics were unbelievably negative and went 180 degrees to his mantra of attacking football. I had the sinking feeling quite early that he was a lot of talk and not much walk. When Bloom made comments about how much he delegated and how he had communication issues and consistency issues then it became quite damning.

The Ince argument doesn't quite work either if it's trotted out with the injury argument. Had Bridcutt been fit Ince wouldn't have got a look in.

I'm delighted we have a new manager, purely because I had utterly lost faith in the previous one anyway.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

Took about as long for us to forget him as it took for him to scuttle back to his comfort zone with his tail between his legs.

 

[topbanana36]

Oscar hasn't been forgotten, nor have any other of our managers. The conversation just moves on.

Bet Jeff Wood has been forgotten poor bloke doesn't even get his own wikipage.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

It could also be argued that the injuries provided a convenient mitigation for Garcia and masked the fact he was out of his depth.
His tactics were unbelievably negative and went 180 degrees to his mantra of attacking football. I had the sinking feeling quite early that he was a lot of talk and not much walk. When Bloom made comments about how much he delegated and how he had communication issues and consistency issues then it became quite damning.

The Ince argument doesn't quite work either if it's trotted out with the injury argument. Had Bridcutt been fit Ince wouldn't have got a look in.

I'm delighted we have a new manager, purely because I had utterly lost faith in the previous one anyway.

Had Garcia had a fully fit squad available for the whole season or at least the for the majority of it, where do you think we'd have finished if he achieved 6th with half a squad?

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Onwards and upwards

yeah, but some on here were falling over themselves backing him while the ship was sinking
regards
DR

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Greer went off on 24 minutes with the aggregate score of 2-1, it was another 10 minutes before they went ahead 3-1.

Had Greer stayed on and played the full match, we would have been more solid at the back and able to push on more as the game wore on. We would still have 3 subs to make but as soon as Greer went off, one of CMS, Lua Lua and March was going to miss out.

You can argue that none of the following were match fit and in form: Buckley, Lua Lua, Orlandi, CMS so they couldn't all start or all come on and they were our main make a difference players. I always felt they needed about 5 more games before we reached the play-offs to get back to where they would like to have been in terms of fitness, etc.

We had hoped to get the best out of these players over part of the game but with the possibility of injury time if the aggregate score was 2-2, you could have players who couldn't last, even if subbed on for players who had run out of steam themselves.

At 3-1 down, we tried but just were outclassed by a better team on the day, they got their tails up when it went 3-1 and they just went for it as we struggled to match them. Sometimes you just need to credit the opposition and say there was nothing you could do about it and this is one of those cases. Fate conspired against us, at no point had we needed to play 2 different CBs to Greer and Upson at the same time and, after losing El-Abd (for perfectly acceptable reasons) we struggled to bring in a replacement (it may be simply there were no players who were better than we had left available to sign and or wanted to come to us.

Garcia did well to get us to where he did in the circumstances, it wasn't always entertaining to watch but it was almost just as effective as Poyet in the final standings and without half of the key players Poyet had at his disposal. Would Poyet have got to the same place in the league with the same circumstances, i'm not so sure (rememeber how many draws we had under Poyet)

Ince could have played CB as it was his preferred position before he was pushed into midfield. It struck me that Oscar wasn't totally aware of his player's strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

Ince could have played CB as it was his preferred position before he was pushed into midfield. It struck me that Oscar wasn't totally aware of his player's strengths and weaknesses.

When has Ince played at CB for us? When was his last game in that position? Was he good enough to play a Championship match as a CB or only as a holding midfielder in the Bridcutt role. Has he even played a professional league game at any level as a CB? He's untried for us in that positioon and the safer bet was to put Ward into CB and bring Chicksen on. He had, at least, played league games for MK Dons and made a few appearances for us as a LB prior to the match.

If PIG had got injured in that match, would you say we should put, say, Solly* in goal just because he started out as a goalkeeper (* not sure if he did but it is for demonstrative purposes only)

With the players available to Garcia, i think he made the only logical choice in the circumstances when Greer went off and sadly it didn't work out for us. Whats to say that any other suggested combination (Calde moved in, Ince, etc) would have faired any better and we may have ended up being worse off? - hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[smudge]

On paper, you think "great", then you hear him talk, then you see his football.
I was hearing talk months ago that he was last to arrive & first to leave on a daily basis. Also, he hardly spoke to the players. Glad he's gone.
We finished in the play off's by a miracle, as it seemed other teams were even more incompetent than us.

 

[Greyrun]

On paper, you think "great", then you hear him talk, then you see his football.
I was hearing talk months ago that he was last to arrive & first to leave on a daily basis. Also, he hardly spoke to the players. Glad he's gone.
We finished in the play off's by a miracle, as it seemed other teams were even more incompetent than us.

Apparently he left half time talks to Jones and at the end of the game nothing was said and he just went home.

 

[spanish flair]

On paper, you think "great", then you hear him talk, then you see his football.
I was hearing talk months ago that he was last to arrive & first to leave on a daily basis. Also, he hardly spoke to the players. Glad he's gone.
We finished in the play off's by a miracle, as it seemed other teams were even more incompetent than us.

It does make you wonder what changed him when he came from his previous club. Surely he never behaved like that in Israel and if he did then how effective was the evaluation of the applicants when he was employed. I just remember how impressed the board said they were about his knowledge of the club and our players. So what went wrong between Oscar and the club in such a short time, because if he performed like that in his previous position what made him the top applicant for the job?

 

[BadFish]

Spot on. Solly March wouldn't have been making his England U20 debut recently but for Oscar. Was very good news for the youngsters.

Hopefully this is a club decision and Sami will be expected to keep playing the youngsters.