Istanbul 2017 - so it begins

[symyjym]

Well, innocent of causing trouble in the middle east for example.

Yep, innocent of causing the trouble in the ME.

 

[symyjym]

I don't recall mentioning Bush or Blair and I have never mentioned them in any post on any part of this forum. It wouldn't have mattered if Mother Theresa had been in control of the West, these savages would still have been butchering and murdering each other in the name of their religion.

They always have done and sadly they always will do.

As I have said I am no fan of Islam but we have to learn our own lessons and sending our soldiers to war under false pretences and without backing from the UN isn't leading by example. We let ourselves down big time, not once, not twice, it's three bloody times.

Islam cannot change because it's written in their stupid book and hadiths's how to act when cornered. The west doesn't have this problem, it just needs to start behaving itself on the world stage because right now we live in a Hypocrisy not a Democracy.

 

[bWize]

The west doesn't have this problem, it just needs to start behaving itself on the world stage because right now we live in a Hypocrisy not a Democracy.

The west has very much had this problem in recent times (IRA, Basque bombings etc)

It's got better regarding the IRA but lets no pretend our own religions haven't played a part in bloodshed in the west during recent times.

RIP to all that were killed. Really not a good start to the year. It's a shame there are such sick and evil human beings!

 

[Triggaaar]

Yep, innocent of causing the trouble in the ME.

So their war with Afghanistan did nothing?

 

[symyjym]

So their war with Afghanistan did nothing?

That was the USSR and nothing to do with Putin. Afghanistan had a communist government backed by the Soviet Union and the US armed the Afghans to fight their war against them, but let's not get side tracked.

 

[Triggaaar]

That was the USSR and nothing to do with Putin.

I didn't say it was Putin. You're happy to look at the Bush and Blair, why won't you look at Russia's previous leaders? And the leaders of the USSR were the leaders of Russia.

Afghanistan had a communist government backed by the Soviet Union and the US armed the Afghans to fight their war against them, but let's not get side tracked.

It's not getting sidetracked, it's part of what caused problems in the middle east.

 

[knocky1]

Erdogan has supported Islamism wherever he can, be in his own nation or abroad and now Turkey is going to have a problem on two fronts the Kurdish separatists and Islamism. Turkey is growing more religious by the day Kemal Ataturk vision of secularism is being destroyed by Erdogan and the Turkish people will suffer because of it.

Any Armenians left alive may not consider Ataturk's Turkey as secular.

 

[symyjym]

I didn't say it was Putin. You're happy to look at the Bush and Blair, why won't you look at Russia's previous leaders? And the leaders of the USSR were the leaders of Russia.

It's not getting sidetracked, it's part of what caused problems in the middle east.

We were clearly talking about Russia not the old USSR. Bush Blair Cameron Obama Putin are all relevant, dead leaders and old broken unions aren't. I've made my point, if you don't like it that's fine.

 

[symyjym]

The west has very much had this problem in recent times (IRA, Basque bombings etc)

It's got better regarding the IRA but lets no pretend our own religions haven't played a part in bloodshed in the west during recent times.

RIP to all that were killed. Really not a good start to the year. It's a shame there are such sick and evil human beings!

Yes but Jesus at the core of Christianity was peaceful and taught forgiveness, Islam on the other hand doesn't have the same luxury with Muhammad.

 

[cjd]

Any Armenians left alive may not consider Ataturk's Turkey as secular.

Also, I doubt christians consider Turkey as secular any more.

 

[daveinprague]

So their war with Afghanistan did nothing?

They were invited by the Afghan government, and fought alongside the Afghan government.

 

[cheshunt seagull]

Yes but Jesus at the core of Christianity was peaceful and taught forgiveness, Islam on the other hand doesn't have the same luxury with Muhammad.

The Old Testament contains plenty of horrors and its’s deity is a total psychopath. I think that as human beings the majority of us have the sense to edit out the most negative elements over time periodically resurrecting them, as is the case in Islam, which currently represents the greatest actual threat to us. The last point would probably have applied to medieval Christianity which seemed to place very little emphasis on forgiveness.

It does annoy me that the media bends over backwards to pretend that religion plays no part in the acts of terror we see but there is a difference between being critical about Islam and judging all Muslims; and this is a distinction that too many on the right fail to make which makes a measured discussion impossible.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could just learn to get rid of our imaginary friends in childhood.

 

[Triggaaar]

We were clearly talking about Russia not the old USSR. Bush Blair Cameron Obama Putin are all relevant, dead leaders and old broken unions aren't. I've made my point, if you don't like it that's fine.

No we're not just talking about the current leader of the Russia, we're talking about world politics. You'll look at the actions of previous Western leaders, but not previous Russian leaders.

My point is that you're not capable of being objective. If you don't like it, that's fine.

 

[symyjym]

The Old Testament contains plenty of horrors and its’s deity is a total psychopath. I think that as human beings the majority of us have the sense to edit out the most negative elements over time periodically resurrecting them, as is the case in Islam, which currently represents the greatest actual threat to us. The last point would probably have applied to medieval Christianity which seemed to place very little emphasis on forgiveness.

It does annoy me that the media bends over backwards to pretend that religion plays no part in the acts of terror we see but there is a difference between being critical about Islam and judging all Muslims; and this is a distinction that too many on the right fail to make which makes a measured discussion impossible.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could just learn to get rid of our imaginary friends in childhood.

I agree, the Old Testament is a bit of a horror movie and Moses was a genocidal maniac. As an atheist though, I still understand Jesus to be more of a political revolutionary who questioned the old Mosaic Law. “Let him without sin cast the first stone”, Forgive your enemy”, Love your neighbour”, Do unto others how you wish to be treated yourself” are all pretty good messages that are as relevant today as they were then.

Most Muslims are better than their prophet but they will still make out that Muhammad having sex with a 9 year old was actually a romantic love story, and the slaughtering of 600 men and teenage boys from the Banu Qurayza tribe was defensive, and any raids on caravans or other for 1/5 of the booty plus first pick of sex slaves is perfectly fine.

Even what is going on in Syria is basically Muslims acting out the End of Days prophecy in the Quran. I don't like Islam but I understand that they are victims too because they are brainwashed from birth.

 

[symyjym]

No we're not just talking about the current leader of the Russia, we're talking about world politics. You'll look at the actions of previous Western leaders, but not previous Russian leaders.

My point is that you're not capable of being objective. If you don't like it, that's fine.

I'm not stopping you stating your opinion but all you have done is question mine. I'm all ears if you want to go into detail about Afghanistan and why you think it's a good starting point for what we are seeing today.

 

[pastafarian]

Wouldn’t it be great if we could just learn to get rid of our imaginary friends in childhood.

what you mean is wouldnt it be great if adults were not allowed to brainwash children about religion

 

[alfredmizen]

They were invited by the Afghan government, and fought alongside the Afghan government.

invited by the afghan government, yes in the same way the Czech and Hungarian governments requested Soviet "assistance" if you actually believe what you posted your even sillier than I thought.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

what you mean is wouldnt it be great if adults were not allowed to brainwash children about religion

This .... with bells on !!!! I grew up in a Christian family and went to church, relunctantly. As a young adult I became agnostic and then gradually atheist. I finally broke my brainwashing. Now I find it amazing that a species that can send probes to Mars, control the might of nature, invented the internet, create food that simply dances on your tougue ...... that is so intelligent, has a vast proportion of it's population believe in sky fairies ! It just staggers me.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

They were invited by the Afghan government, and fought alongside the Afghan government.

Invite ..... invade .... probably got lost in translation somewhere !

 

[daveinprague]

invited by the afghan government, yes in the same way the Czech and Hungarian governments requested Soviet "assistance" if you actually believe what you posted your even sillier than I thought.

and the same way the Americans were invited to Vietnam.
If you are fighting alongside the national Afghan army, you are hardly fighting a war against Afghanistan/
The Americans however, did invade Afghanistan.