Issues relating to the EU referendum

[Machiavelli]

This is a thread on which to debate what issues are the most crucial for making your mind up about the forthcoming referendum.

For me, the primary theme informing my position is that, increasingly, issues are supra-national, and regional or continental groups are playing substantial roles, and will continue to play even greater roles in the future. Primarily, these are climate change, and how to tame finance and the power of vast corporations. Hence, it's an IN for me.

 

[cunning fergus]

This is a thread on which to debate what issues are the most crucial for making your mind up about the forthcoming referendum.

For me, the primary theme informing my position is that, increasingly, issues are supra-national, and regional or continental groups are playing substantial roles, and will continue to play even greater roles in the future. Primarily, these are climate change, and how to tame finance and the power of vast corporations. Hence, it's an IN for me.

This taming of the finance and power of vast corporations you are worried about, are you comfortable that your champion, (the most powerful man in the EU) has a track record of helping vast corporations avoid tax?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ds-Luxembourgs-tax-arrangements-as-legal.html

It's like you arguing for greater child protection and appointing Rolf Harris to head up the institution to do it.

The irony here is I share similar concerns about the power of corporations and the EU (like TTIP) and yet I am out for the same reason you are in.

One of us must be wrong........

 

[jakarta]

Sovereignty.

The Buck should stop at Westminster.

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

Are we going to get any 'professional campaigners' sign up to NSC , who will only post on the EU threads ?

Both campaigns have 'phone banks' to nuisance call the public.

Is it too much of a stretch to think they'll have activists targetting on line message boards ?

How many new posters will appear with no interest in posting on the Glenn Murray return threads ?

 

[beorhthelm]

This is a thread on which to debate what issues are the most crucial for making your mind up about the forthcoming referendum.

For me, the primary theme informing my position is that, increasingly, issues are supra-national, and regional or continental groups are playing substantial roles, and will continue to play even greater roles in the future. Primarily, these are climate change, and how to tame finance and the power of vast corporations. Hence, it's an IN for me.

what a comical opening gambit when the power of corporations is reinforced by the EU, their blind eye to regulations on climate change mean the UK hit targets ealier while others in the club are behind, they regulate to cause deforestration in far off lands and we now know they've sacrificed particle polution at the alter of CO2.

 

[GT49er]

This is a thread on which to debate what issues are the most crucial for making your mind up about the forthcoming referendum.

For me, the primary theme informing my position is that, increasingly, issues are supra-national, and regional or continental groups are playing substantial roles, and will continue to play even greater roles in the future. Primarily, these are climate change, and how to tame finance and the power of vast corporations. Hence, it's an IN for me.

EU player ratings, 1975 to 2015.

Climate change: tries hard - maybe 7 out 0f 10;
Taming finance - 1 out of 10;
Taming power of vast corporations - you must be having a giraffe!
Clogging everything up, and ham-stringing national governments with layer upon layer of expensive unnecessary bureaucracy - 14 out of 10 at least!

 

[Bevendean Hillbilly]

Are we going to get any 'professional campaigners' sign up to NSC , who will only post on the EU threads ?

Both campaigns have 'phone banks' to nuisance call the public.

Is it too much of a stretch to think they'll have activists targetting on line message boards ?

How many new posters will appear with no interest in posting on the Glenn Murray return threads ?

Good point. I vote that no one with a join date of later than 2015 be allowed to have an opinion on anything other than disco pants and haircuts. I never bother reading any of their JCL shit anyway.

Why is it that the post withdean era NSCers insist on claiming their lifelong support when we all know their frauds and liars.

 

[Notters]

I think the UK as a whole will end if we leave the EU. There will be a vastly complicated mess as Scotland gets home rule then Wales declares independence and the Northern Ireland succeeds to Ireland.

England will become less and less democratic and more and more right wing. I shall be getting an Irish passport and moving to France or Spain.

Oh and my job is based solely on European legislation.

 

[studio150]

What will be the position on signing current EU players if we leave. Does it mean that the current rules on non EU playets apply so x% of internationals so we would not been able to sign playets like Calde Bruno Ulloa etc.

 

[daveybgtt]

issues are supra-national

I don't believe in ghosts, so OUT!

 

[gregbrighton]

The EU is not there to serve the citizens, it's not there even to serve the ambitions of the power-hungry politicians. The European Union together with the European Bank and other financial institutions are there to increase the already vast profits of the multinational corporations and elite bankers/banking families (Rothchild's, for example). They are using and bribing the Eurocrats and politicians to further their own financial interests.

These greedy people are already buying off and bribing the politicians in our national parliament but at least, the electorate can vote these politicians out. The EU is full of unelected officials who are largely unaccountable to the people, so I say we need to get OUT of the EU and bring back the decision making and power to our own parliament and our own people. Our nation should, at last, shape its own future, its own border control and immigration policy and determine its own economic destiny.

 

[studio150]

The EU is not there to serve the citizens, it's not there even to serve the ambitions of the power-hungry politicians. The European Union together with the European Bank and other financial institutions are there to increase the already vast profits of the multinational corporations and elite bankers/banking families (Rothchild's, for example). They are using and bribing the Eurocrats and politicians to further their own financial interests.

These greedy people are already buying off and bribing the politicians in our national parliament but at least, the electorate can vote these politicians out. The EU is full of unelected officials who are largely unaccountable to the people, so I say we need to get OUT of the EU and bring back the decision making and power to our own parliament and our own people. Our nation should, at last, shape its own future, its own border control and immigration policy and determine its own economic destiny.

What evidence do you have that Westminster politicians are bribed?

 

[cunning fergus]

I think the UK as a whole will end if we leave the EU. There will be a vastly complicated mess as Scotland gets home rule then Wales declares independence and the Northern Ireland succeeds to Ireland.

England will become less and less democratic and more and more right wing. I shall be getting an Irish passport and moving to France or Spain.

Oh and my job is based solely on European legislation.

Some strange assumptions here, as far as the UK is concerned. Regardless of the EU vote Scotland is less likely to go independent in a second referendum because a) the SNP's economic argument for independence has been shredded and b) they will have to argue for joining the euro, this is a vote loser, and why the SNP didn't support it last time.

Wales declaring independence and NI cedes to ROI is fantasy. Welsh Assembly election polls for May indicate UKIP will poll enough to get 9 or 10 seats, hardly an endorsement of your vision. You also assume the ROI will want NI, this is not the political reality for ROI. Unlike the EU the ROI's electorate would get a vote on expansion, and at that point the cost of supporting NI will become clear. In short the ROI simply couldn't afford it.

A referendum is democracy, if we are out or in the EU the UK and/or England will be MORE democratic. This is a good thing surely.

Good luck with your travels, will you renounce your British citizenship once you get your Irish passport or keep it "just in case"?

I work in a company that employs a team of people like you, as I am not assuming we will not stop trading in the EU, their roles are still important.

 

[Hamilton]

The EU is not there to serve the citizens, it's not there even to serve the ambitions of the power-hungry politicians. The European Union together with the European Bank and other financial institutions are there to increase the already vast profits of the multinational corporations and elite bankers/banking families (Rothchild's, for example). They are using and bribing the Eurocrats and politicians to further their own financial interests.

These greedy people are already buying off and bribing the politicians in our national parliament but at least, the electorate can vote these politicians out. The EU is full of unelected officials who are largely unaccountable to the people, so I say we need to get OUT of the EU and bring back the decision making and power to our own parliament and our own people. Our nation should, at last, shape its own future, its own border control and immigration policy and determine its own economic destiny.

What a load of baloney. You can't just rant your way to out.

 

[Hamilton]

Are we going to get any 'professional campaigners' sign up to NSC , who will only post on the EU threads ?

Both campaigns have 'phone banks' to nuisance call the public.

Is it too much of a stretch to think they'll have activists targetting on line message boards ?

How many new posters will appear with no interest in posting on the Glenn Murray return threads ?

They'd take one look at this board and know it was a lost cause. As with most NSC issues, the sides look pretty entrenched.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

I think the UK as a whole will end if we leave the EU. There will be a vastly complicated mess as Scotland gets home rule then Wales declares independence and the Northern Ireland succeeds to Ireland.

England will become less and less democratic and more and more right wing. I shall be getting an Irish passport and moving to France or Spain.

Oh and my job is based solely on European legislation.

What about those people like myself who have expressed concerns time and time again about immigration, how does democracy work here then, because it doesn't matter who I vote for in this country, we can never ever change the rules on open borders because of EU rules. This isn't a democracy to me. These people making the decisions in the EU don't have a bloody clue how normal people live, not in this country or the rest of the EU. Where are our voices?

 

[gregbrighton]

What about those people like myself who have expressed concerns time and time again about immigration, how does democracy work here then, because it doesn't matter who I vote for in this country, we can never ever change the rules on open borders because of EU rules. This isn't a democracy to me. These people making the decisions in the EU don't have a bloody clue how normal people live, not in this country or the rest of the EU. Where are our voices?

A great point. We have no voice on these issues. David Cameron promised that immigration would be controlled and the numbers cut in 2010 but they have done nothing about it. Camerons negotiations in the weekend are meaningless. The people need to take control and vote OUT.

 

[Deleted member 22389]

A great point. We have no voice on these issues. David Cameron promised that immigration would be controlled and the numbers cut in 2010 but they have done nothing about it. Camerons negotiations in the weekend are meaningless. The people need to take control and vote OUT.

How things are working with the EU at the moment is just the worst form of democracy going. I don't know if I can really even call it a democracy any more. Why can't people see it, I just don't know. I'm surprised the Labour Party, Greens accept this bullshit because I thought they where all for democracy. How can they complain about a lack of money going in to our services, at the same time as supporting an organisation that takes 50 millions pounds of us a day to pay for European bureaucrats to sit on their back sides telling everyone else what to do.

 

[gregbrighton]

How things are working with the EU at the moment is just the worst form of democracy going. I don't know if I can really even call it a democracy any more. Why can't people see it, I just don't know.

Much of it isn't and has never been a democracy. We should have never given awa our powers in the first place...

 

[Blue Valkyrie]

I'd like to find more source and info on a 2nd referendum.

Out of the corner of my ear I (mis)heard on the radio that Boris had mentioned it. It was moved on from before I'd focused in on it.

Can anyone find some source or commentary on this ?