ISIS have apparently burned the Jordanian pilot alive

[ThePompousPaladin]

Why because people who have generally have a better understanding of the current dynamic than most westerners. It's apparent on here that people often view it as an area still hide bound by western influence and domination, rather than a region that is disproportionately financially and socially influential.

Fair point.
I've worked in the middle east for 6 months. So have dealt generally with arabs and not persians in the past (abroad).
I have a close family member who has worked out 'there', in various hotspots, although for the military.

My points were about recruitment in this country though, i don't think we can directly influence their politics much. I've based my remarks about young british muslims. Sorry for not making that clear.

Out of interest, where and what did you do?

 

[The Spanish]

Fair point.
I've worked in the middle east for 6 months. So have dealt generally with arabs and not persians in the past (abroad).
I have a close family member who has worked out 'there', in various hotspots, although for the military.

My points were about recruitment in this country though, i don't think we can directly influence their politics much. I've based my remarks about young british muslims. Sorry for not making that clear.

Out of interest, where and what did you do?

It doesn't matter what I do but it has taught me in my working life that racism and being judgemental gets you nowhere. I cannot afford to be part of either. But part of what I do is around cultural awareness and acceptance of difference , to ensure people don't have accidents and die due to misunderstandings.

 

[mothy]

Henry viii used to burn people who didn't agree with his religious beliefs.

 

[Half Time Pies]

It seems that you can argue almost indefinitely over the finer points of the reasons for the rise of Militant Islam and IS as this clearly a complex issue with social/ economic/ political/ religious/ ideological and historical roots.

I don't know what the solution is however its clearly not a military one: two gulf wars and Afganistan and we now have IS and many of the worlds leaders must be saying 'come back Sadam all is forgotten'. Neither can it be to tar all muslims with the same brush and clamp down on cultural differences which will no doubt create further divisions within our society and further radicalisation.

As someone who's father-law was Muslim and half of my Wife's family I don't believe we should just be fearful of IS and radical islam but also of racism, bigoted views and the rise of the far right.

 

[The Spanish]

W

It seems that you can argue almost indefinitely over the finer points of the reasons for the rise of Militant Islam and IS as this clearly a complex issue with social/ economic/ political/ religious/ ideological and historical roots.

I don't know what the solution is however its clearly not a military one: two gulf wars and Afganistan and we now have IS and many of the worlds leaders must be saying 'come back Sadam all is forgotten'. Neither can it be to tar all muslims with the same brush and clamp down on cultural differences which will no doubt create further divisions within our society and further radicalisation.

As someone who's father-law was Muslim and half of my Wife's family I don't believe we should just be fearful of IS and radical islam but also of racism, bigoted views and the rise of the far right.

When the far right start blowing up tubes trains and beheading soldiers in broad daylight in London, I will agree with you. The tolerance that has been displayed from the british public has been astounding. You do people a great disservice equating the two, in terms of level of threat.

 

[Bold Seagull]

W

When the far right start blowing up tubes trains and beheading soldiers in broad daylight in London, I will agree with you. The tolerance that has been displayed from the british public has been astounding. You do people a great disservice equating the two, in terms of level of threat.

But the reality of the threat is disproportionately small compared to the coverage. Of all the incidents of terrorism in Europe since 2005, only 2% have been Muslim related. In the US since 9/11 37 people have been victims of Muslim terrorism whereas in the same period 190,000 have been murdered. The threat is there no doubt but our governments do seem to want to use this fear for security ends, a great example is the US who will make legislative change regarding security from the terrorist threat but do nothing about firearm regulation - last year you were more likely to get shot by a toddler accidentally firing a gun than a terrorist.

It's not astounding the British public choose to proportionally take rare terror related incidents and place them in the same category as other horrific acts of murder or violence in this country - why is it a disservice to equate more threat to a specific thing that statistically at least is less likely to happen than many other violent criminal events?

 

[User removed 4]

But the reality of the threat is disproportionately small compared to the coverage. Of all the incidents of terrorism in Europe since 2005, only 2% have been Muslim related. In the US since 9/11 37 people have been victims of Muslim terrorism whereas in the same period 190,000 have been murdered. The threat is there no doubt but our governments do seem to want to use this fear for security ends, a great example is the US who will make legislative change regarding security from the terrorist threat but do nothing about firearm regulation - last year you were more likely to get shot by a toddler accidentally firing a gun than a terrorist.

It's not astounding the British public choose to proportionally take rare terror related incidents and place them in the same category as other horrific acts of murder or violence in this country - why is it a disservice to equate more threat to a specific thing that statistically at least is less likely to happen than many other violent criminal events?

I don't believe that for a second, I'll bet that those figures are massaged to include civil wars in Eastern European States like Ukraine etc, or perhaps you can show me a source that proves your claim?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

I don't know - all I know that since 2001 global Jihadi terrorism has increased exponentially. The reasons for this are of course complex and debatable, I don't have the answers myself.

There's a good article here about the rise of the Islamic State.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29123528

 

[Buzzer]

I don't believe that for a second, I'll bet that those figures are massaged to include civil wars in Eastern European States like Ukraine etc, or perhaps you can show me a source that proves your claim?

I don't think it's right either

 

[Soulman]

I don't think it's right either

Me neither.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I don't believe that for a second, I'll bet that those figures are massaged to include civil wars in Eastern European States like Ukraine etc, or perhaps you can show me a source that proves your claim?

I don't think it's right either

Me neither.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-terrorism-europe/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_European_Union

For the US, here are the stats from the FBI http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05#terror_05sum

 

[User removed 4]

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2015/01/08/3609796/islamist-terrorism-europe/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_European_Union

For the US, here are the stats from the FBI http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005/terror02_05#terror_05sum

Well that's driven a coach and horses through my post hasn't it, Wikipedia and what looks like the left wing version of stormfront, both of which refer to vague 'ethno separatist groups' , you're desperately scraping the barrel and trying to convince yourself.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Well that's driven a coach and horses through my post hasn't it, Wikipedia and what looks like the left wing version of stormfront, both of which refer to vague 'ethno separatist groups' , you're desperately scraping the barrel and trying to convince yourself.

Not really. I'm not desperately trying to convince anyone. Happy to debate the reality of the 'threats' we face. Obviously statistics are easily manipulated to the purpose you wish to highlight. For example Buzzer's showed attacks resulting in 2 or more deaths which makes a different picture, as does taking statistics post July 2005.

I'm not saying anything more than the perceived threat from Islam is greatly exaggerated from the threats we face every day. It's still a very real threat as I did state in my post. I'm not denying the reality of Islamic extremism, but in balance the fear we put on it greatly outweighs the reality of the threat, in my opinion.

I grabbed a few sources I had quick access to. I noted you posted none, at least Buzzer went to the trouble of countering my argument with something meaningful.

 

[Bold Seagull]

You could also trawl through this lot if you fancy it….

https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37

 

[Soulman]

Not really. I'm not desperately trying to convince anyone. Happy to debate the reality of the 'threats' we face. Obviously statistics are easily manipulated to the purpose you wish to highlight. For example Buzzer's showed attacks resulting in 2 or more deaths which makes a different picture, as does taking statistics post July 2005.

I'm not saying anything more than the perceived threat from Islam is greatly exaggerated from the threats we face every day. It's still a very real threat as I did state in my post. I'm not denying the reality of Islamic extremism, but in balance the fear we put on it greatly outweighs the reality of the threat, in my opinion.

I grabbed a few sources I had quick access to. I noted you posted none, at least Buzzer went to the trouble of countering my argument with something meaningful.

I would imagine that security has been stepped up and greatly improved since 2005, i wonder how many threats have been nipped in the bud.

 

[Buzzer]

Interesting quotes from that report the graph comes from:

Page 8, straight after the foreword: "The majority of EU Member States continue to consider religiously inspired terrorism as a major threat, as evidenced by the significant increase in the number of arrests...With regard to left-wing and anarchist terrorism, the number of attacks and arrests increased compared to previous years. Right-wing extremists may exhibit violent and intimidating behaviour, but do not generally employ terrorist modi operandi."

"EU citizens continue to travel to conflict zones to receive training in combat techniques and to engage in armed struggle. The numbers of EU citizens travelling to Syria in particular, including those intending to fight alongside al-Qaeda-affiliated groups, were already substantial and rising, and increased significantly in 2013."

Page 9: "Developments in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region increase risks in the EU and for EU interests elsewhere."

....And the first and largest chapter is on religious-inspired terrorism, almost exclusively Islamic terrorism.

And I'm not sure that graph clearly demonstrates the data contained within the report. Take for instance separatist terrorism. In 2012 there were 257 arrests and 167 attacks, in 2013 there were 167 arrests and 84 attacks. But earlier in the report it refers to 122 arrests in 2011 for religious inspired terrorism. 159 arrests in 2012 and 216 in 2013. And bizarrely the report says:

"(EU) Member States reported no terrorist attacks specifically classified as religiously inspired terrorism for the 2013 period. However, in at least two attacks, the role of religious radicalisation appears to be evident."

Specifically these were the murders of Lee Rigby and the French soldier stabbed to death. It would appear to me that EU governments are extremely reluctant to record religious terrorism, probably to downplay the public threat. If the UK government doesn't recognise the Rigby murder as a religious inspired terrorism, then I think we are being taken for mugs by these figures. Personally I'm gobsmacked by that little bit of the report.

 

[Buzzer]

You could also trawl through this lot if you fancy it….

https://www.europol.europa.eu/latest_publications/37

I have done. See my previous post.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I would imagine that security has been stepped up and greatly improved since 2005, i wonder how many threats have been nipped in the bud.

That is true, but the stats from europol I think included foiled plots, so not just successfully carried out terrorist attacks.

 

[Buzzer]

That is true, but the stats from europol I think included foiled plots, so not just successfully carried out terrorist attacks.

To me, that graph does not reflect the tone nor content of the report. To my reading, religious-inspired terrorism is the number one priority of EU governments and the one that most are focused on.

 

[Soulman]

That is true, but the stats from europol I think included foiled plots, so not just successfully carried out terrorist attacks.

Well it seems we will get less information soon then. Facebook new policy.
http://conservative-headlines.com/2...-formal-policy-of-censoring-critism-of-islam/