ISIS have apparently burned the Jordanian pilot alive

[JJ McClure]

If they want an Islamic State, let them have it. Whatever land they've captured so far build a bloody big wall around it and leave them to it. Anyone else who wants to live like that can be chucked out the back of a C130 with a parachute (or not).

 

[StonehamPark]

Too late. Someone already did on post#73. The relativism of such comments never fails to amaze me.

...These ISIS atrocities are horrific.

They're not Muslim

...But they clearly are. The clues are all there.

Okay, they ARE Muslim but what about Westboro Baptist Church?

...Yes. A group of at most 12 people that no-one takes seriously and who picket funerals is directly comparable to large swathes of the Middle East under Islamic zealotry.

Please, Buzzer.
I wan't these guys wiped out just as much as anyone but don't bring religion into it. They're not true Muslims.
There'll always be a select few idiots of the faith that will idolize them, but these idiots exist in all walks of live.

The are terrorists, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[The Spanish]

It's slightly different. Those allies were of broadly similar culture to those being rescued, and probably understood and accepted why civilian casualties were a price worth paying, and then had a good idea of what would follow. I think there would be a whiff of imperialism if a load of West Europeans and Americans come riding in to liberate Iraq and Syria.

Which is why we should leave it to other Arabs to sort out. It's high time they acted like a united front to sort their own problems out if you ask me.

not taking your words out of context but expansionism from Arabia, and consequent Ottoman excpansion in all directions, is the basis of this current issue. not dissimilar to imperialism. The original caliphate was founded by Turks, culturally different from Arabs. This is a multicultural phenomenon, we associate with the middle east currently and that may be its spiritual heartland (and financial centre at the moment), but pre oil, it was led from the indian subcontinent and anatolia. Believing we are too culturally remote to engage with this effectively is not really true.

Historical context to prove points in these debates are boring and often simply an excuse for the poster to show off, but lets not build cases for non engagement based on cultural differences that are of our own perception, or suit our own arguments.

 

[Buzzer]

Please, Buzzer..... They're not true Muslims.

I refer you to my previous post. They clearly are Muslims:

You're going to have to help me out here then. ISIS was formed by a Muslim cleric, it's leaders are all fanatically Muslim, it's acolytes are all avowedly Muslim, the aims of ISIS are all based on their reading of the Koran and every act is done in the name of Mohammed. Oh, and ISIS stands for 'Islamic State of Iraq and Syria'.

No offence but I don't think it's ignorant to suggest that there might be a common factor here.

I wan't these guys wiped out just as much as anyone but don't bring religion into it.

Don't bring religion into it? Sorry, but that did make me laugh! How the hell do you try to eradicate an organisation whose raison d'etre is their faith without bringing religion into it? Jesus wept - the linguistic knots some people tie themselves up in trying to disassociate ISIS with Islam!

 

[dannyboy]

in other news ........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-block-Syria-stoned-death-SURVIVED-fall.html

 

[Megazone]

Bloody God, selling these Muslims guns!

 

[somerset]

Lovely bigotry, 8 out of 10.

Some first class prejudicing there - tarring a quarter of the world's population with one brush.

I say it how I am starting to see it dude......

 

[Megazone]

I say it how I am starting to see it dude......

You can see a quarter of the world's population?

are you on the moon?

 

[Simster]

not taking your words out of context but expansionism from Arabia, and consequent Ottoman excpansion in all directions, is the basis of this current issue. not dissimilar to imperialism. The original caliphate was founded by Turks, culturally different from Arabs. This is a multicultural phenomenon, we associate with the middle east currently and that may be its spiritual heartland (and financial centre at the moment), but pre oil, it was led from the indian subcontinent and anatolia. Believing we are too culturally remote to engage with this effectively is not really true.

Historical context to prove points in these debates are boring and often simply an excuse for the poster to show off, but lets not build cases for non engagement based on cultural differences that are of our own perception, or suit our own arguments.

Sorry mate, but if you're going to waffle on about caliphate founded by Turks, the Ottoman empire and so on, then how is that any different from those excusing the significance of the religion of Islam from this problem by saying "well the Christians did it too in the 15th century"?

The fact is, Western Europe has form when it comes to imperialism, and we need to avoid fall out from that. Let the Arabs step up to the plate and deal with their problems.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

No, Hiroshima and Nagasaki examples.

There is no fair outcome to this method for innocent civilians, but something drastic needs to be down very soon.
Innocent civilians have and will always be caught in the crossfire if they can't get out in time.

What's the alternative? A 10 year drawn out war with mass casualties on both sides as well as innocent civvies?

So lets say all these civilians, or at least a majority of them, do manage to get out in time. So you drop THE bomb making the area uninhabitable for years - you now have hundreds of thousands of people homeless. WHat do you plan to do about them ? Do you think they will be grateful to the Western world or do you think they might just be a tad resentful and are quite likely going to take up arms against the people that destroyed their homes ? I know if anyone did that to me I'd do whatever I could to gain my revenge.

An utterly unintelligent and simplistic idea.

 

[Soulman]

How about we just stay out of these foreign wars but properly deal with any twats who decide to go out there to fight?

I stated similar last night. There are enough countries to sort out the problems if they want. Trouble is they are slaughtering each other in many countries, and other religions along the way. Lets see the vast majority moderates rise up against the alleged minority extremists.

 

[albion534]

When is the world going to step up and kill these sick freaks

 

[Soulman]

Of course they have. What's that got to do with our present predicament? We can't go back and spank the Crusaders bums can we?
It's not much help to our current and future wellbeing, just to say "well bring it on we probably deserved it because of our ancestry" !

Exactly this.

 

[Insel affe]

in other news ........

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...r-block-Syria-stoned-death-SURVIVED-fall.html

Barbaric people living in the bloody stone age, having said that I am sure there are Christians, and other religious beliefs that would and have done similar be it here, Africa or the USA....

Religion is for weak people

 

[Soulman]

Too late. Someone already did on post#73. The relativism of such comments never fails to amaze me.

...These ISIS atrocities are horrific.

They're not Muslim

...But they clearly are. The clues are all there.

Okay, they ARE Muslim but what about Westboro Baptist Church?

...Yes. A group of at most 12 people that no-one takes seriously and who picket funerals is directly comparable to large swathes of the Middle East under Islamic zealotry.

If it wasn't so sad it would be laughable.

 

[StonehamPark]

So lets say all these civilians, or at least a majority of them, do manage to get out in time. So you drop THE bomb making the area uninhabitable for years - you now have hundreds of thousands of people homeless. WHat do you plan to do about them ? Do you think they will be grateful to the Western world or do you think they might just be a tad resentful and are quite likely going to take up arms against the people that destroyed their homes ? I know if anyone did that to me I'd do whatever I could to gain my revenge.

An utterly unintelligent and simplistic idea.

As I said, there's no fair outcome for the innocent.
I'll ask again, as you have your own opinions in this debate, what's your preferred alternative?

 

[Questions]

They don't appear to be doing so though, this has been going on for 15 years now, before 9/11 infact

I don't see how predominantly Muslim countries are supposed to unite and deal with the IS. Do they all unite in a military alliance ? Better give Indonesia a shout then.

 

[Simster]

I stated similar last night. There are enough countries to sort out the problems if they want. Trouble is they are slaughtering each other in many countries, and other religions along the way. Lets see the vast majority moderates rise up against the alleged minority extremists.

Unfortunately, according to the UN in 2002, Arabs are THE most insular people in the world and so don't much care for anything outside their own territory. There are lots of reasons for this. Arabia is a hotchpotch of republics, kingdoms, emirates and so on, each with rulers who have their own interests at heart first and fore-mostly. And most Arabs are horribly suppressed. They'd need to break their own shackles before reaching out to other Arabs in need.

There is no easy solution. All I know is that we shouldn't be losing lives over this. I think the best contribution we could make is to agree not to supply arms to ANYONE in the region, but of course that's very lucrative isn't it?

 

[Westdene Seagull]

As I said, there's no fair outcome for the innocent.
I'll ask again, as you have your own opinions in this debate, what's your preferred alternative?

It should a two pronged attack - one being a military responce including airstrikes and ground troops. The ground troops should be Arab ones.

There needs to be a lot of pressure put on the moderate Muslim community to stop extremist views in Mosques. It should also include severe prison sentences for those who preach hate or join groups like ISIS.

What won't help is mass genocide by the West.

 

[The Spanish]

I stated similar last night. There are enough countries to sort out the problems if they want. Trouble is they are slaughtering each other in many countries, and other religions along the way. Lets see the vast majority moderates rise up against the alleged minority extremists.

t

are they going to sort out the problems of our own citizens supporting this, or acting on their behalf in Europe? Leaving this thing alone so it hopefully leaves us alone is not a realistic option or a likely successful strategy.