ISIL making headline again

[carlzeiss]

http://www.9news.com.au/world/2015/...-execution-of-21-coptic-christian-aid-workers

 

[clungemeister]

i didn't realise they had a strong presence in Lybia......

 

[TomandJerry]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

IS won't ever be wiped out unless there is a hugely sustained ground invasion. But with some countries that offer protection to IS makes it harder to get rid of them

 

[looney]

i didn't realise they had a strong presence in Lybia......

you find them were ever there is large numbers of Muslims. Heres one nicked in East London Today.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...t-London-suspicion-member-supporter-ISIS.html

 

[looney]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

So its all the wests fault, would you include Boko Haram as well?

Personally I think you are in denial about the root of the problem, I came across these types in the 1990s.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

15 of the worlds top 20 defense contractors are American companies and the 6 biggest companies in the US arms industry employ over 700,000 people (for comparison, the British Army employs 125,000 people). War and instability across the world must play such a large role in underpinning America's economy that I can see how people think instability is something the American administration want.

 

[somerset]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

Again, the West's fault,..... are you just plain simple?

 

[looney]

15 of the worlds top 20 defense contractors are American companies and the 6 biggest companies in the US arms industry employ over 700,000 people (for comparison, the British Army employs 125,000 people). War and instability across the world must play such a large role in underpinning America's economy that I can see how people think instability is something the American administration want.

View attachment 63122

You know thers about 400 million in the USA so that makes roughly less than one quarter of one percent. You are talking rubbish.

 

[Kosmonaut]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

"Strong Leaders", you mean brutal tyrants that were failing to hold on to power anyway, remember the Arab Spring happened spontaneously, Assad and Gaddafi would not have been able to maintain as much dominance as they did regardless, and it's unclear how a more prolonged or never-ending perpetual civil war in Libya rather than one hastened by western support would have done anything to quell the rise of these groups. Same for Libya, it's unclear what would have happened sans any intervention, you're making massive assumptions here. Egyptian rebels did not need western support, nor did Tunisia, nor apparently does Yemen. I think it's quite absurd to give any moral responsibility to actions by the west towards those countries for the creation of ISIS, actions by the way which were supported on a massive scale by many middle eastern and North African countries and the UN, incidentally. It's impossible to predict the future and know exactly what results your actions would have had, and it's extremely unreasonable to pretend that it was clear to anyone prior to intervention in those two countries that not intervening would have resulted in a better outcome than intervening would have.

Iraq of course is a slightly different matter.

 

[The Camel]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

I have some sympathy with what you say, but it is too simplistic isn't it?

Gaddafi and Saddam ruled their countries with an iron fist, killing and torturing anyone who spoke out against them.

ISIS are a bunch of despicable human beings, but the "strong leaders" who there before weren't any better for the people that lived there.

I'm more inclined to blame the poverty of the region which makes so many people think ISIS is the only way out.

 

[symyjym]

So its all the wests fault, would you include Boko Haram as well?

Personally I think you are in denial about the root of the problem, I came across these types in the 1990s.

We also cannot deny that we have opened up Iraq, Libya and Syria for IS, and basically gave them a new breeding ground. The Middle East was fairly stable compared to what we have today. We could say the problem was already there, but we can also say we made it a hundred times worse.

 

[Guy Fawkes]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

So this anti western thing is only a recent thing? What about Israel and the way it was created causing friction in the area? or going even further back, the crusades?

Can't these have helped to fire up an anti perspective towards other religions and over a far longer time than the Arab revolutions or the gulf wars? etc....

No, far simpler to take a simplistic view and blame just the recent politicians.

 

[Kosmonaut]

The Middle East was fairly stable compared to what we have today.

The Middle East certainly wasn't stable in the least prior to the Arab Spring, Gaddafi, Mubarak & Assad were losing grip, and unambiguously failed to maintain stability in the region.

 

[symyjym]

I have some sympathy with what you say, but it is too simplistic isn't it?

Gaddafi and Saddam ruled their countries with an iron fist, killing and torturing anyone who spoke out against them.

ISIS are a bunch of despicable human beings, but the "strong leaders" who there before weren't any better for the people that lived there.

I'm more inclined to blame the poverty of the region which makes so many people think ISIS is the only way out.

We also showed how brutal we are by letting Gaddafi and Saddam die like animals. I thought we were better than that but we are not.

 

[symyjym]

The Middle East certainly wasn't stable in the least prior to the Arab Spring, Gaddafi, Mubarak & Assad were losing grip, and unambiguously failed to maintain stability in the region.

Disagree but going to bed.

 

[Camicus]

I was in a bar in Eygpt when 9/11 happened they were cheering as the planes hit and laughing at Americans falling to their deaths. The hatred of the west was there long before the invasion of Iraq so stop blaming us for everything that's wrong in the muslim world

 

[Baldseagull]

Do you genuinely believe that ISIS would be able to get away with this in Saddam's Iraq, Gaddafi's Libya, Mubarak's Egypt. Or don't you realise that Assad's fight against ISIS would be a hell of a lot easier if we didn't ARM the terrorists with modern weaponry and aid and sanction the **** out of their economy?

I doubt ISIS would even exist, if it wasn't for Western intervention.

I wouldn't accuse you of being simple, just obtuse.

You may have a point about Iraq, but Libyans took power from Gaddafi, Egyptians took power from Mubarak, Syrians are revolting against Assad. Mubarak was heavily backed by the US for many years, not removed by them. These revolts, and others in Tunisia have largely been lead by Islamist groups.

 

[pastafarian]

i cant believe someone is actually writing about the pros of having a genocidal maniac like Sadam in charge instead of a bunch of rampaging religious Jihadist fruitcakes trying to have a go.
What about option C?

Its like asking who do you want to be the next Chief Medical Officer but you are limited to only two choices......... Harold Shipman or Josef Mengele?

 

[Dick Head]

This makes me so sad and angry.

Not just at ISIS, the most evil and dangerous ideology in living memory, but at Western Leaders intervention which led to their creation. Why the **** couldn't our countries have just left Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc alone. We have essentially done the Jihadi scum's hard work for them, by removing the strong leaders of the Middle East and allowing these extremist scum to terrorise their way into, what has now become, power.

It's all so utterly tragic and unforgivable... and I don't know how this can end, or whether it will end. **** you Blair, Bush, Cameron, Obama you war mongering ****s who spread your twisted idea of democracy onto nations that are not ready or suitable for it. This is what the result of it is, you all have blood on your hands, I hope you can't live with yourselves.

I don't think they read NSC.

 

[pastafarian]

There are some political decisions that have happened in the Middle East over the past 70 years from outside influences from Britain,USA,Russia,France to name a few,that ranges from the questionable to what on earth were you thinking.
These are of course all fantastic opinions we can all have when hindsight is brought in.

There is a mindset however of some that will use this thinking to do whatever they can to blame Blair,Bush,Cameron and Obama(ironically a President who is lambasted daily by the right wing USA media for not being a tough warmonger and too soft for not getting involved enough militarily in the Middle East) and they will also tell you the barbaric acts carried out are simply because of Iraq and the guilty mentioned above,they wont tell you however about a growing Islamic death cult since the 1990`s and its growth fuelled and aided by the simplicity of modern communications like the internet.No,they will tell you the Iraq war is solely to blame.

Its no surprise to me extreme socialists will push this agenda and try to tell you its better propping up maniac murderous despots than Fanatical Muslims,they would say this though because most of these maniac despots in that region based their whole system on a socialist revolutionist ideology. Gaddafi`s "Great Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya" state based on direct democracy being a good example.Never criticise your own no matter how evil they are applies nicely here.

I would hope people,and i suspect many actually do to see through this smokescreen of blame.


As for the initial post by [MENTION=13923]carlzeiss[/MENTION] which mustafa has managed to deflect straight away into a red herring(because we must never discuss nasty muslims) oddly enough i dont blame Blair,Bush,Cameron or Obama for these 21 coptic christians being taken down to the beach and being beheaded,nor do i blame them for putting a man in a cage setting fire to him and at the very last instant of his life dropping tonnes of rubble on his head from a bulldozer .I certainly dont blame Blair Bush et all either for beheading a western hostage and stopping half way through whilst he is in the utmost pain to get a good camera shot.

These acts and their depravity can solely be laid on the followers of the Worldwide Islamic Caliphate and their outdated Medieval ignorant adherence to what is just another daft religion.Blaming solely Blair Bush etc for the acts of an islam based caliphate formed in June 2014 stinks of rank naive stupidity