[Albion] Is the Prem even worth staying in?

[Bold Seagull]

I think I've spent a lot of time on this thread replying to individual points made by you and [MENTION=16159]Bold Seagull[/MENTION] that you're starting to infer stuff I don't mean. Let's be clear:

- Being us now is better than being Sunderland
- Of COURSE the Amex is WAY better than Withdean and many (but not all) of my favourite Albion matches have been there.
- Last season was my favourite ever watching Brighton (and there the problem starts)
- I'm grateful for everything Tony has put in and continues to. I've done a 180 on Paul Barber. I think CH is one of the most impressive human beings on the planet.
- I have (like [MENTION=21158]Weststander[/MENTION]) enjoyed our home wins but not so much the Man City, Liverpool and Chelsea games. In fact not at all
- Nevertheless I can appreciate good players - Gross is FANTASTIC. Ryan is much better than I thought he would be. Propper is about what I was expecting. Schelotto is my new Albion cult hero. I LOVE him. Izquierdo has disappointed though.
- On the field by far the most disappointing thing has been the shackling of last season's flair stars, Knockaert and March in to a defensive formation that frankly doesn't work.

So, all that said, the issues to pull out are:

- I'm always going to prefer winning to losing
- I don't want us to be the next Arsenal
- I don't want us to be the next West Brom either
- I probably have no choice that we're going to be one of the two middle things if we are to survive financially - and frankly I HATE that prospect.

Fair enough with your summary there.The underlined is a debate in its own right though. You say shackling, I say neither has been up to the task. They've been playing in a 4-4-1-1 most of the season, but they have not troubled the opponents full backs enough, opposition can go 1 on 1 with them and feel fairly comfortable. A wide player in the PL has to be able to take on and beat their man to be effective, to pull centre halves out of position. Its down to their mindset, performance and quality. Gross has been able to deliver ball after ball into the box from a variety of positions often creating panic or a chance, just not seen anywhere near that quality from Knocky or March sadly, and I don't think its to do with formation or shackling.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

So if we just sort of shuffle out of the PL not with a bang but with a whimper, as seems increasingly likely, what's the end game after that? Try and re-enthuse the rugger buggers to turn up again in huge numbers for young Jeremy's birthday treat in the Championship? Try and entice the ST waiting list not to evaporate overnight? Good luck with that.

 

[Insel affe]

So if we just sort of shuffle out of the PL not with a bang but with a whimper, as seems increasingly likely, what's the end game after that?.

I thought it was plan as day starring us in the face as we speak during this transfer window, we are strengthening now getting our players in early to avoid any FFP fines...

We are recruiting already for next seasons Premier League push, ah I am just an ol cynic.... ignore me.....

Or are we.....

 

[kjgood]

Like to stay in the Premier League if just to give our benefactor some of his money back. He deserves it.

 

[Weststander]

Like to stay in the Premier League if just to give our benefactor some of his money back. He deserves it.

This.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Fair enough with your summary there.The underlined is a debate in its own right though. You say shackling, I say neither has been up to the task. They've been playing in a 4-4-1-1 most of the season, but they have not troubled the opponents full backs enough, opposition can go 1 on 1 with them and feel fairly comfortable. A wide player in the PL has to be able to take on and beat their man to be effective, to pull centre halves out of position. Its down to their mindset, performance and quality. Gross has been able to deliver ball after ball into the box from a variety of positions often creating panic or a chance, just not seen anywhere near that quality from Knocky or March sadly, and I don't think its to do with formation or shackling.

I wish I could find the stats - someone else posted them on another thread - but Knockaert has had far more defensive touches this season and far fewer attacking ones. March we're going to have to go from memory on but certainly against Man City he was pretty much playing as a second wing back. They do both have issues going forward admittedly. Knockaert's cut back on to the left is picked all the time. March doesn't have the pace for the Premier League. I can't think of a single full back that he's skinned. All the more reason to play Izqueirdo though for my money.

Another point that's been done to death in the pub is inverse wingers playing with their strong foot away from the touchline. I think Izquierdo would be far better on the right going outside players and if Knocky was on the left teams would have to "re-learn" him at least. My theory is that, with a choice of one from two slow main strikers and Gross in the hole they'd arrive at the byline with no one to cross to - in other words we cut inside to allow the team to catch up. It will be interesting to see if we try this once Locadia is fit.

 

[Weststander]

I wish I could find the stats - someone else posted them on another thread - but Knockaert has had far more defensive touches this season and far fewer attacking ones. March we're going to have to go from memory on but certainly against Man City he was pretty much playing as a second wing back. They do both have issues going forward admittedly. Knockaert's cut back on to the left is picked all the time. March doesn't have the pace for the Premier League. I can't think of a single full back that he's skinned. All the more reason to play Izqueirdo though for my money.

Another point that's been done to death in the pub is inverse wingers playing with their strong foot away from the touchline. I think Izquierdo would be far better on the right going outside players and if Knocky was on the left teams would have to "re-learn" him at least. My theory is that, with a choice of one from two slow main strikers and Gross in the hole they'd arrive at the byline with no one to cross to - in other words we cut inside to allow the team to catch up. It will be interesting to see if we try this once Locadia is fit.

Not exactly what you wanted, but there's this:

Knockaert - PL minutes played 1,615 / 2 PL goals / 1 PL assist / 3 'big chances created'.

March - 1,400 / 1 / 1 / 2

Izquierdo - 850 / 2 / 2 / 3

All their stats were dominated by defensive duties, with March having a lower success rate in 50:50's at 33%.


I agree about March's seeming lack of pace, but to mention that risks drawing the fury of the 'eez one of our own' mob.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I wish I could find the stats - someone else posted them on another thread - but Knockaert has had far more defensive touches this season and far fewer attacking ones. March we're going to have to go from memory on but certainly against Man City he was pretty much playing as a second wing back. They do both have issues going forward admittedly. Knockaert's cut back on to the left is picked all the time. March doesn't have the pace for the Premier League. I can't think of a single full back that he's skinned. All the more reason to play Izqueirdo though for my money.

Another point that's been done to death in the pub is inverse wingers playing with their strong foot away from the touchline. I think Izquierdo would be far better on the right going outside players and if Knocky was on the left teams would have to "re-learn" him at least. My theory is that, with a choice of one from two slow main strikers and Gross in the hole they'd arrive at the byline with no one to cross to - in other words we cut inside to allow the team to catch up. It will be interesting to see if we try this once Locadia is fit.

They've had more defensive touches – exactly as you would expect going from top of the Championship to bottom of the Premier League. That doesn't mean it is tactical, or shackling of them, that was my point really, I don't think we are directing them not to attack their full backs. Against Man City, they played so high and so fast, I don't think it was a plan to play as a second wing back, that just happened through necessity.

To add to your theory, I think Gross is pulled out wider because that is where we've needed help. If we were winning the wing battles, Gross could remain far more central and be another target in and around the box if our wingers got the ball in early. But they're not getting behind, and Gross is ending up helping taking his presence away from the centre. If he was able to remain more central because we were getting plenty of quality ball in from the wide areas, would probably mean Propper could get more forward too, however as soon as Gross goes wide, Stephens and Propper have to be mindful of the hole he's left the opposition can break into.

Agree with Izqueirdo, but the lad's attitude does appear to be all over the place at present. Superb against Bournemouth, barely interested against Palace and West Brom.

For me Locadia has to be a straight swap with Murray and see how his pace works with Gross's passing, and Propper for that matter. If they suddenly start troubling the centre backs, the full backs will need to tuck in and cover more hopefully leading to space to exploit out wide.

 

[Icy Gull]

Of course it is worth staying in, this season we are like the small nervous kid in his first year in senior school. Stay up and things will almost certainly get better on the entertainment front the longer we can hang around. We aren’t going to be a top six team anytime soon though, if ever.

The most upset Brighton fan and the one with the most to lose will be TB if we go down, the rest of us (mostly) will be gutted but over it by kick off in the Championship next season.

I’m not optimistic about our chances which will make survival, if it happens, almost like promotion for me.

 

[dangull]

You could say the same thing for some of the smaller clubs in the championship, Burton for example who's only target is to avoid relegation.

Since Falmer was built, the clubs size is about between high part of the championship and lower 12 of the premier league. Whether a continued run in the premier league for a few years changes that is another question.

 

[Weststander]

You could say the same thing for some of the smaller clubs in the championship, Burton for example who's only target is to avoid relegation.

Since Falmer was built, the clubs size is about between high part of the championship and lower 12 of the premier league. Whether a continued run in the premier league for a few years changes that is another question.

In every way, as the club and its support stands these days (not history), is every bit the size of Bmuff, Stains, Palace, Swansea, WBA and Stoke in my opinion. They all feel very at home in PL and stay up season after season.

Any of those 6 clubs in the Championship would not be huge, with the mass support of say a Newcastle or Villa.

My point is that we can very much feel at home in the PL, IF the Board can get a decent PL squad together.

 

[dangull]

In every way, as the club and its support stands these days (not history), is every bit the size of Bmuff, Stains, Palace, Swansea, WBA and Stoke in my opinion. They all feel very at home in PL and stay up season after season.

Any of those 6 clubs in the Championship would not be huge, with the mass support of say a Newcastle or Villa.

My point is that we can very much feel at home in the PL, IF the Board can get a decent PL squad together.

My point though is Sunderland, Wigan ect were just surviving for a number of years until they finally got relegated. Despite all the revenue they received, those clubs don't seem any better off now than say Forest who have not been in the top flight for ages.

 

[Weststander]

My point though is Sunderland, Wigan ect were just surviving for a number of years until they finally got relegated. Despite all the revenue they received, those clubs don't seem any better off now than say Forest who have not been in the top flight for ages.

Sunderland, Wigan and Villa blew the PL money as they went along on fees and wages, at a level beyond club income, so it was topped up TB- esque by their owners, until they got fed up with doing it. Villa are only in a better current position than Sunderland, because the new onwer is playing the game again of injecting £10m's of his money to buy and pay better players they really can't afford.

Forest, Ipswich and others stay mid to lower half, as they don't have TB's, Villa types pumping in huge sums.