[Albion] Is Potter 1 game away from being sacked?

[Justice]

Surprised an olive branch hasn’t been mentioned by one of Swansmans aliases.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Looking forward to you getting it on Moder.

I'm not sure what you mean about "it"?

He's a great player but he's not as quick as Moises or as good as Ali Mac. Generally we use him to fill in somewhere between a wide mid player and wing back, which he doesn't quite have the pace for. When he's covering for a player like Duffy to boot then you could see where we might have issues.

For whatever reason we had a lightbulb moment approaching and playing the Arsenal away game. Webster was still injured but we moved Cucurella to LCB. He was so effective there were debates on here where he was actually playing because his average position was that of a left wing back but he was very much in the CB three out of possession. We started with Welbeck to give us a focal point and a team of box to box midfielders. It worked. Against Spurs we tweaked it slightly to deny Kane and Son the ball and that worked too and, hey presto, North London was ours. It was very, very good coaching to recover from the slump but the slump was big enough to beget this thread.

The other thing with Moder is if he'll be good enough after his injury. Many aren't after an ACL.

 

[Triggaaar]

F*** me!! I’ve just been reading the earlier posts on this thread and come to the conclusion that we have have some right fickle fans on this forum.

That's a polite way of putting it.

 

[Machiavelli]

I'm not sure what you mean about "it"?

He's a great player but he's not as quick as Moises or as good as Ali Mac. Generally we use him to fill in somewhere between a wide mid player and wing back, which he doesn't quite have the pace for. When he's covering for a player like Duffy to boot then you could see where we might have issues.

For whatever reason we had a lightbulb moment approaching and playing the Arsenal away game. Webster was still injured but we moved Cucurella to LCB. He was so effective there were debates on here where he was actually playing because his average position was that of a left wing back but he was very much in the CB three out of possession. We started with Welbeck to give us a focal point and a team of box to box midfielders. It worked. Against Spurs we tweaked it slightly to deny Kane and Son the ball and that worked too and, hey presto, North London was ours. It was very, very good coaching to recover from the slump but the slump was big enough to beget this thread.

The other thing with Moder is if he'll be good enough after his injury. Many aren't after an ACL.

RE 'getting it', I was merely using your terms to describe your Man City epiphany
RE the injury, yes, that might be the case, and we shouldn't expect too much from him initially as players need easing back after an injury like that.
Certainly agree re Cucurella, but think Moder is better than you describe: he's extremely mobile and very good at ghosting into positions and arriving late in the box. He's yet to score but, unlike certain others we could pinpoint, that was more to do with bad luck than poor finishing. Once back up to speed, I suspect his goal return will be on a par with Mac and Moises. While we're on those two, to compare Moder with them is setting the bar rather high: you're talking about the best double pivot in the PL. No reason why Moder cannot be accommodated alongside them in a Potter rejig.

 

[Triggaaar]

With football management you are only as good as your recent results, so I think it was legit to question our manager after 6 defeats on the bounce and an appalling home record

That's the point - the 'you're only as good as your recent results' trope is wrong. If at some point games don't go our way, and we have a poor string of results, then GP isn't suddenly a poor manager.

What do people think about Leicester fans wanting Rodgers gone after 6 poor games ? He won them the FA Cup & Community Shield and they finished fifth , fifth and eighth in the last three seasons. However, even the media now seem to think he needs to go.

I think he's a good manager and if he wants to stay I'd want (as an owner) him to convince me that a) he's up for the fight and b) he's going to get the players up for the fight. Right now it's not obvious that they are. But if they are, I think they should stick with him.

 

[jackanada]

he adapted after sticking strictly to a possession based team, starting with playing it around the back. No longer, we don’t now dominate teams on possession stats, we can and do play it long, mixing it up.

I would contend that the seasons of playing possession football, fannying about at the back, the elaborate short goal kick routines forcing us to play out from exceptionally deep, that these were an essential part of the process.
The goal was not a possession based team, but a team that was comfortable using the ball anywhere on the pitch.
Without all the fannying at the back would we ever have seen Trossard back heel a pass near his own corner flag?

 

[Simster]

What do people think about Leicester fans wanting Rodgers gone after 6 poor games ? He won them the FA Cup & Community Shield and they finished fifth , fifth and eighth in the last three seasons. However, even the media now seem to think he needs to go.

I think he needs to go, not because their results are shocking but simply because that team is not playing for each other and he's not doing anything to fix it. Against Albion, at least twice there were arguments between their players, one or two of them looked like they couldn't be arsed and that their poor form wasn't on them (Maddison in particular reminded me of Ronaldo when we battered Man Utd 4-0).

On the other hand, we've been through some barren spells with Potter - [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] is right to say we are very much feast or famine under him, which contributes to the skittish in/out/in/out mood of this board - but Potter has not once remotely looked as if he's lost the dressing room. Even when we don't get results, we've often been unlucky and the players appear to recognise that. We'll go through a barren spell again at some point, and we need to remember this as fans. Just keep an eye on the body language of the players and ask yourself if they are still playing for Potter.

 

[Guinness Boy]

RE 'getting it', I was merely using your terms to describe your Man City epiphany
RE the injury, yes, that might be the case, and we shouldn't expect too much from him initially as players need easing back after an injury like that.
Certainly agree re Cucurella, but think Moder is better than you describe: he's extremely mobile and very good at ghosting into positions and arriving late in the box. He's yet to score but, unlike certain others we could pinpoint, that was more to do with bad luck than poor finishing. Once back up to speed, I suspect his goal return will be on a par with Mac and Moises. While we're on those two, to compare Moder with them is setting the bar rather high: you're talking about the best double pivot in the PL. No reason why Moder cannot be accommodated alongside them in a Potter rejig.

I think we're into semantics. I've never once said Moder is a bad player but he's not quite in the league of Caicedo or Mac. Yes, that's a VERY high bar. The big issue in that run of losses was obviously Duffy. I love Big Shane and his contribution to the Albion as well - without his blocks and partnership with Dunk in the first two seasons Potter would have taken us over (maybe) in The Championship - but it's not heresy to say the side sent out to play Burnley at home was not suited to peak Potterball and the sides sent out against Arsenal away and Man United at home were.

 

[Machiavelli]

I think we're into semantics. I've never once said Moder is a bad player but he's not quite in the league of Caicedo or Mac. Yes, that's a VERY high bar. The big issue in that run of losses was obviously Duffy. I love Big Shane and his contribution to the Albion as well - without his blocks and partnership with Dunk in the first two seasons Potter would have taken us over (maybe) in The Championship - but it's not heresy to say the side sent out to play Burnley at home was not suited to peak Potterball and the sides sent out against Arsenal away and Man United at home were.

Yup, agree with that. I also was a big fan of Duffy's defensive attributes, but it was blindingly obvious that all his blocks, clearances and even when he had the opportunity to pass the ball went straight back to the opposition. Not cut out for Potterball and, yes, we really struggled in that period without Webster and Dunk, especially having lost Burn. But that's largely about CBs, rather than Moder.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

I think he needs to go, not because their results are shocking but simply because that team is not playing for each other and he's not doing anything to fix it. Against Albion, at least twice there were arguments between their players, one or two of them looked like they couldn't be arsed and that their poor form wasn't on them (Maddison in particular reminded me of Ronaldo when we battered Man Utd 4-0).

On the other hand, we've been through some barren spells with Potter - [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] is right to say we are very much feast or famine under him, which contributes to the skittish in/out/in/out mood of this board - but Potter has not once remotely looked as if he's lost the dressing room. Even when we don't get results, we've often been unlucky and the players appear to recognise that. We'll go through a barren spell again at some point, and we need to remember this as fans. Just keep an eye on the body language of the players and ask yourself if they are still playing for Potter.

I agree.

Rodgers has a history off off field distraction. It wouldn't surprise me if he's taken his eye off the ball because he's been rearranging the duvet in his love dungeon

 

[B-right-on]

I think he needs to go, not because their results are shocking but simply because that team is not playing for each other and he's not doing anything to fix it. Against Albion, at least twice there were arguments between their players, one or two of them looked like they couldn't be arsed and that their poor form wasn't on them (Maddison in particular reminded me of Ronaldo when we battered Man Utd 4-0).

On the other hand, we've been through some barren spells with Potter - [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] is right to say we are very much feast or famine under him, which contributes to the skittish in/out/in/out mood of this board - but Potter has not once remotely looked as if he's lost the dressing room. Even when we don't get results, we've often been unlucky and the players appear to recognise that. We'll go through a barren spell again at some point, and we need to remember this as fans. Just keep an eye on the body language of the players and ask yourself if they are still playing for Potter.

This. The arguments between the players was quite an eye opener for me. Leicester have let in 16 goals in 6 games and won 7 in 27.

He's not been backed up with the recruitment and lost several key players. But still, it looks like he's lost the team spirit from that game.

GPott has at no time 'lost' the dressing room. Can't remember when the Sanchez/Duffy spat was, but that's about as much as I've seen with disharmony in the squad. Apart from Maupays sulks of course.

I saw this on the wall during the Football Focus Muzza/Welbz interview. Interesting philosophy.

 

[Icy Gull]

I think he needs to go, not because their results are shocking but simply because that team is not playing for each other and he's not doing anything to fix it. Against Albion, at least twice there were arguments between their players, one or two of them looked like they couldn't be arsed and that their poor form wasn't on them (Maddison in particular reminded me of Ronaldo when we battered Man Utd 4-0).

On the other hand, we've been through some barren spells with Potter - [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] is right to say we are very much feast or famine under him, which contributes to the skittish in/out/in/out mood of this board - but Potter has not once remotely looked as if he's lost the dressing room. Even when we don't get results, we've often been unlucky and the players appear to recognise that. We'll go through a barren spell again at some point, and we need to remember this as fans. Just keep an eye on the body language of the players and ask yourself if they are still playing for Potter.

I think he'd have to lose quite a few of them because I am pretty sure he'd drop anybody who wasn't giving 100%, our whole game is built around it. Sure we'll have players who have bad games but once they stop trying they'll be out however important they have been in the past imo.

That Leicester team did look like they were no longer playing for Rodgers or each other though.

 

[Bold Seagull]

We weren't unlucky playing possession football with Duffy at CB and Moder and Lallana providing the momentum. The Burnley game was awful and the Villa game no better. Yet just a few weeks later North London was ours. All down to Potter changing the players and system.

And yet Duffy, Lallana and Moder all played in the system we repeated away at Spurs in the Liverpool game at Anfield where with Liverpool still looking in a league of their own with City, we were very unfortunate not to take all 3 points.

The start of that 6 game unbeaten run we played well first half at MU, but Dunk saw red, Webster got injured, and that ripped our back line out for Burnley. Tough game to recover from and even Dunk returning couldn't reverse a loss of confidence. However we played much better at Newcastle, and while you can look at it as a dreadful run of results, the spirit, work rate and desire never left the side. Norwich was a ridiculous act of profligacy and actually the Arsenal performance was coming. Welbeck returning and Caicedo making a huge difference. Tactics also changed from the Arsenal game to Spurs which echoed the aforementioned Liverpool game.

Maybe for you feeling like Potter's job was on the line that there was a sea change that fits that, but for me and what I was seeing, I've never seen what perhaps Leicester fans were seeing on Sunday from our group. There was never a time I thought Potter should be under pressure for his job, that tactics, our spirit, or character was in question, and I very much doubt internally that was the case either.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I think he needs to go, not because their results are shocking but simply because that team is not playing for each other and he's not doing anything to fix it. Against Albion, at least twice there were arguments between their players, one or two of them looked like they couldn't be arsed and that their poor form wasn't on them (Maddison in particular reminded me of Ronaldo when we battered Man Utd 4-0).

On the other hand, we've been through some barren spells with Potter - [MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] is right to say we are very much feast or famine under him, which contributes to the skittish in/out/in/out mood of this board - but Potter has not once remotely looked as if he's lost the dressing room. Even when we don't get results, we've often been unlucky and the players appear to recognise that. We'll go through a barren spell again at some point, and we need to remember this as fans. Just keep an eye on the body language of the players and ask yourself if they are still playing for Potter.

Very much echoing this above. And we only see match days.

We play a brand of football that needs 8 or 9 out of our 10 outfield players to be on their game. We have 2 or 3 off such as at Fulham, while there is no fault in spirit or endeavour, we can get turned over - it is a risk we take with playing such positive progressive football. The flip side is, and I'm sure many of us were thinking would the players mindset recover on Sunday, and after conceding in the first minute, you might think in many sides belief ebbs away, but on the contrary, you wouldn't believe Tuesday's result even happened to this group as they tore through any shreds of recovery Leicester players felt in that first half.

 

[Weststander]

I would contend that the seasons of playing possession football, fannying about at the back, the elaborate short goal kick routines forcing us to play out from exceptionally deep, that these were an essential part of the process.
The goal was not a possession based team, but a team that was comfortable using the ball anywhere on the pitch.
Without all the fannying at the back would we ever have seen Trossard back heel a pass near his own corner flag?

With all possession based teams eg Citeh, I gather that the benefits include depriving the opposition of the ball so they (on paper) literally cannot score, also drawing the opposition forward to harry and then hitting them in the space created.

The problem for us at that time was it made us predictable and we didn't really have the pace/forwards to cut teams open in that space.

GP's clearly now mixing it up and from almost nowhere our first 11 contains real power and pace.

 

[Guinness Boy]

And yet Duffy, Lallana and Moder all played in the system we repeated away at Spurs in the Liverpool game at Anfield where with Liverpool still looking in a league of their own with City, we were very unfortunate not to take all 3 points.

The start of that 6 game unbeaten run we played well first half at MU, but Dunk saw red, Webster got injured, and that ripped our back line out for Burnley. Tough game to recover from and even Dunk returning couldn't reverse a loss of confidence. However we played much better at Newcastle, and while you can look at it as a dreadful run of results, the spirit, work rate and desire never left the side. Norwich was a ridiculous act of profligacy and actually the Arsenal performance was coming. Welbeck returning and Caicedo making a huge difference. Tactics also changed from the Arsenal game to Spurs which echoed the aforementioned Liverpool game.

Maybe for you feeling like Potter's job was on the line that there was a sea change that fits that, but for me and what I was seeing, I've never seen what perhaps Leicester fans were seeing on Sunday from our group. There was never a time I thought Potter should be under pressure for his job, that tactics, our spirit, or character was in question, and I very much doubt internally that was the case either.

I've questioned Potter a number of times, but if you look back on this thread I didn't call for his head. Merely pointed out the obvious that the tactics weren't suiting the players in that run of defeats.

This is why I'm quite encouraged by the squad this season. Although Cucurella is a big miss we've got in two players to cover him who look like they can play the GP way. We'll be a bit screwed if Welbeck has to miss some of our next games but I suspect Undav and Ferguson will at least be able to cover soon. Ostensibly we've lost our holding midfielder, the most expensive full back in the world and our top scorer. In reality Colwell and Van Hecke are stronger cover than Duffy (though perhaps not Burn) and Estupinan / Trossard to cover the left wing back should be good most of the time and our starting midfield looks better. GP's comments re Maupay suggest that their relationship was difficult and I understand why he's gone.

 

[Bold Seagull]

I've questioned Potter a number of times, but if you look back on this thread I didn't call for his head. Merely pointed out the obvious that the tactics weren't suiting the players in that run of defeats.

This is why I'm quite encouraged by the squad this season. Although Cucurella is a big miss we've got in two players to cover him who look like they can play the GP way. We'll be a bit screwed if Welbeck has to miss some of our next games but I suspect Undav and Ferguson will at least be able to cover soon. Ostensibly we've lost our holding midfielder, the most expensive full back in the world and our top scorer. In reality Colwell and Van Hecke are stronger cover than Duffy (though perhaps not Burn) and Estupinan / Trossard to cover the left wing back should be good most of the time and our starting midfield looks better. GP's comments re Maupay suggest that their relationship was difficult and I understand why he's gone.

I agree about Maupay and this season. This group should be about being happy for the person coming on for you, however hard that is, not being angry about it. I do look at our substitutions sometimes, especially if I'm watching on the box and typically the departing player really does give the playing coming on encouragement. I know a detail, but absolutely Maupay didn't fit this expectation and goodness knows what he was like behind the scenes. We're got less standout stars this year, everyone appears to be on a similar level and it's raising the standard beyond losing the likes of Cucu and Biss I feel.

 

[Justice]

A quick one about player sales do you think there will be a time when the top clubs stop paying for our stars? I believe to this day Bissouma is a Potter player he wasn’t that good until coached into the DM position. Cucurella looks half the player he was for us, BW they’ve had to move him into the RB position questionable after (carpet head) my mates nick named Artetta that asked his board for £50m for a CB. Caceido came straight in and did the business so he didn’t need coached as such so could probably slot into a top side. Some players excel under certain mangers.

 

[Simster]

A quick one about player sales do you think there will be a time when the top clubs stop paying for our stars? I believe to this day Bissouma is a Potter player he wasn’t that good until coached into the DM position. Cucurella looks half the player he was for us, BW they’ve had to move him into the RB position questionable after (carpet head) my mates nick named Artetta that asked his board for £50m for a CB. Caceido came straight in and did the business so he didn’t need coached as such so could probably slot into a top side. Some players excel under certain mangers.

It's an interesting question, but on balance I'd say the answer was no. The risk is always that if one club doesn't get the player, he ends up at a competitor. Cucurella might yet provide a good example of this. Is he really looking like half the player he was, or is he just part of a general malaise at Chelsea? Either way, he's only just arrived there and the same goes for Bissouma. As for White, he's at a totally different stage. He was always versatile even with us, and perhaps moving him to right back shows a lot more trust in him filling that position than a) buying another player to do the job or b) asking one of their other centre backs to do it. After all, there isn't much going wrong at Arsenal at the moment is there?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

This. The arguments between the players was quite an eye opener for me. Leicester have let in 16 goals in 6 games and won 7 in 27.

He's not been backed up with the recruitment and lost several key players. But still, it looks like he's lost the team spirit from that game.

GPott has at no time 'lost' the dressing room. Can't remember when the Sanchez/Duffy spat was, but that's about as much as I've seen with disharmony in the squad. Apart from Maupays sulks of course.

I saw this on the wall during the Football Focus Muzza/Welbz interview. Interesting philosophy.

View attachment 151593

I think Cucurella only read the first line