Is no statue safe?

[Chicken Run]

Its partly I enjoy winding up faceless keyboard warriors like yourself.

I don't know if you got Harry Wilson's name from an old programme or copy of Shoot, and you are in fact some pimply faced teenager with huge chip on his shoulder?

I don't know if you were a member of BISA, came down to the meetings at the Concorde, stormed the Directors box against Carlisle, invaded the pitch against York City, boycotted the Mansfield game, left the Hereford game when the rocket went off, had your ears bleed at a John Baine gig, that's the whole fun of the game I just don't know who you are?

Back in March I unfortunately had to go to rehab due to alcohol issues, 92 days clean today, they told me at the clinic I would eventually replace Corona, my binge drink of choice, with something far more enjoyable and healthy, and getting you to respond to my posts has done the trick. Thanks HWT

When we get back to Amex come and find me and we can share a couple of cokes and a hot dog. x

Well done on 92 Ian. [emoji106]

 

[Baker lite]

Its partly I enjoy winding up faceless keyboard warriors like yourself.

I don't know if you got Harry Wilson's name from an old programme or copy of Shoot, and you are in fact some pimply faced teenager with huge chip on his shoulder?

I don't know if you were a member of BISA, came down to the meetings at the Concorde, stormed the Directors box against Carlisle, invaded the pitch against York City, boycotted the Mansfield game, left the Hereford game when the rocket went off, had your ears bleed at a John Baine gig, that's the whole fun of the game I just don't know who you are?

Back in March I unfortunately had to go to rehab due to alcohol issues, 92 days clean today, they told me at the clinic I would eventually replace Corona, my binge drink of choice, with something far more enjoyable and healthy, and getting you to respond to my posts has done the trick. Thanks HWT

When we get back to Amex come and find me and we can share a couple of cokes and a hot dog. x

Well done on the 92 days [emoji1303].
Take no notice of that tool, he could start a fight in an empty house.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[METALMICKY]

 

[Beach Seagull]

I would like to see a statue for PC Keith Blakelock or for PC Keith Palmer or for Lee Rigby and a memorial for the Manchester arena bombings and the various other terrorist attacks we've been subjected to. I wonder the chances are?

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

Yow know despite all this hand-wringing and arguments and days of debates and concern over statues, one statue was torn down in the protests. One. A statue of a slave-trader, a person I have never heard of, but someone I cannot believe we had a statue up to in the first place. But it doesn't matter who this person really was, this statue of a slave trader was a symbol that, however far we might have come, Britain hasn't fully escaped its racist past and still has work to do. Pulling the statue down, by black and white people together, was a powerful symbol of change, a positive symbol of hope for the future and a recognition that we are getting better at this. Its not about statues, and the odd individual putting some grafitti about or the unfounded fears of Bournemouth council don't change that. Its about global understanding that the fight against racism isn't over, but also a global coming together to say 'we are going to improve things'.

I see nothing but positivity in the singular felling of a singular symbolic statue, and I think it can only do good for the world to embrace it.

 

[Kalimantan Gull]

I would like to see a statue for PC Keith Blakelock or for PC Keith Palmer or for Lee Rigby and a memorial for the Manchester arena bombings and the various other terrorist attacks we've been subjected to. I wonder the chances are?

Heroes all





Lee Rigby Memorial

Design for Manchester arena attack memorial revealed

 

[Mellor 3 Ward 4]

Its partly I enjoy winding up faceless keyboard warriors like yourself.

I don't know if you got Harry Wilson's name from an old programme or copy of Shoot, and you are in fact some pimply faced teenager with huge chip on his shoulder?

I don't know if you were a member of BISA, came down to the meetings at the Concorde, stormed the Directors box against Carlisle, invaded the pitch against York City, boycotted the Mansfield game, left the Hereford game when the rocket went off, had your ears bleed at a John Baine gig, that's the whole fun of the game I just don't know who you are?

Back in March I unfortunately had to go to rehab due to alcohol issues, 92 days clean today, they told me at the clinic I would eventually replace Corona, my binge drink of choice, with something far more enjoyable and healthy, and getting you to respond to my posts has done the trick. Thanks HWT

When we get back to Amex come and find me and we can share a couple of cokes and a hot dog. x

Glad you're doing OK Ian.

 

[dazzer6666]

 

[Baker lite]

Christopher has had his block knocked off in Boston.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[hans kraay fan club]

I would like to see a statue for PC Keith Blakelock or for PC Keith Palmer or for Lee Rigby and a memorial for the Manchester arena bombings and the various other terrorist attacks we've been subjected to. I wonder the chances are?

All worthy of remembrance for sure.

 

[Bold Seagull]

Depends what your measurement of success is, aside from the desert war in the 41-43 period the UK had no way of offensively striking any meaningful blow on Germany other than bombing. At that time it was possible that Russia who was doing all the heavy lifting in terms of losses to its civilians and armed forces, could buckle.

The U.K. at that point had also taken a pasting militarily in Europe and the Far East and politically this was problematic for Churchill in his dealings with Roosevelt and Stalin. Bombing was crude and it was indiscriminate, but it was the only show in town. So, bomber command drew a massive portion of the war budget.

Of course we can look back at Churchill and Harris now, with clearer eyes on the events, but we were not there. We can accept that in times of national survival people who were leaders took unpalatable decisions. If we are mature enough to have experienced times in our lives where the only decision you can make is the best worst decision we may have a scintilla of empathy.

Or, we can be childish and say f@ck the old ********, let’s dig them up and chuck ‘em in the river.

I wasn’t criticising Churchill or Harris, I don’t think I gave an opinion on the rights or wrongs of their decisions, so odd way to end your post which otherwise showed you can discuss things without being childish, insulting or deliberately provocative.

 

[carlzeiss]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...under-Lord-Baden-Powell-REMOVED-seafront.html

Council ABANDONS bid to take down Lord Baden-Powell statue as former Scouts form ring of steel to fend off removal crew after BLM protesters branded him a 'racist homophobe with Nazi sympathies'

'Topple The Racists' website has named 78 statues and monuments that 'celebrate slavery and racism'
Organisers were inspired by the 'direct action taken by Bristolians' tearing down Edward Colston's statue
Bournemouth council announced statue of Scout founder Robert Baden-Powell on Poole Quay was to go
Scouts from across England and Wales descended and stopped contractors who refused to work in 'circu

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Yow know despite all this hand-wringing and arguments and days of debates and concern over statues, one statue was torn down in the protests. One. A statue of a slave-trader, a person I have never heard of, but someone I cannot believe we had a statue up to in the first place. But it doesn't matter who this person really was, this statue of a slave trader was a symbol that, however far we might have come, Britain hasn't fully escaped its racist past and still has work to do. Pulling the statue down, by black and white people together, was a powerful symbol of change, a positive symbol of hope for the future and a recognition that we are getting better at this. Its not about statues, and the odd individual putting some grafitti about or the unfounded fears of Bournemouth council don't change that. Its about global understanding that the fight against racism isn't over, but also a global coming together to say 'we are going to improve things'.

I see nothing but positivity in the singular felling of a singular symbolic statue, and I think it can only do good for the world to embrace it.

I agree with all that.

I still expect those who did it to be arrested, charged and fined, though.

Separately if a council wants to remove any statue for a bit (whether to later restore it, put it in a museum, or destroy it), the police have a right to disperse any 'ring of steel' members of the public might set up to prevent this. I expect the police to deal with this, as well as they should have dealt with the attacks on other statues by a different set of people. None of it is acceptable.

The problem seems to be a lack of leadership in the police - unable to protect public property or deal effectively with protesters ranging from those being obstructive to those being distructive, swinging from the heavy handedness of the past to hopeless passivity today. It is as if our institutions (government and police) have lost any semblance of moral compass or clue about what is right and wrong and what to do about it.

 

[Bold Seagull]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...under-Lord-Baden-Powell-REMOVED-seafront.html

Council ABANDONS bid to take down Lord Baden-Powell statue as former Scouts form ring of steel to fend off removal crew after BLM protesters branded him a 'racist homophobe with Nazi sympathies'

'Topple The Racists' website has named 78 statues and monuments that 'celebrate slavery and racism'
Organisers were inspired by the 'direct action taken by Bristolians' tearing down Edward Colston's statue
Bournemouth council announced statue of Scout founder Robert Baden-Powell on Poole Quay was to go
Scouts from across England and Wales descended and stopped contractors who refused to work in 'circu

Which is it, BLM or Topple the Racists!? BLM don’t have representatives or an organisational structure, so anyone could say ‘I’m BLM and that’s racist’ - it’s all a bit Monty Python, no I’m Brian and so is my wife.

Topple the Racists website promotes a dialogue and democratic removal of statues. All Bournemouth Council were going to do is put him in Temporary safe storage. What a load of reactionary fuss, you must be loving it.

 

[Lenny Rider]

Because an opinion is a cumulative thought, based on fact (as opposed to prejudice, which is a cumulative thought not based on facts), which seeks to determine a final position on a given subject.

An agenda is a series of opinions (or, in your case, prejudices) with an underlying motive. In your case, the oppression and/or emasculation of non-white people in Western culture.

Did you ever make it University Challenge Al or were you just the non dart player on Bullseye?

Take a chill pill Big Guy, football's back next week.

 

[cunning fergus]

I wasn’t criticising Churchill or Harris, I don’t think I gave an opinion on the rights or wrongs of their decisions, so odd way to end your post which otherwise showed you can discuss things without being childish, insulting or deliberately provocative.

No problem, I was genuinely not criticising you. My point was that they bombing campaign was the only effective option to strike at Germany. It may not have been as effective as we understood it to be, but in a fight for your life a stick is better than no stick even if you would prefer a gun.

I would recommend Chastise by Max Hastings, interesting that Harris worked against the dams raid, and Churchill overruled him because he needed a “victory” he could use to get the US to commit to the European theatre above Japan.

Of course the crews ultimately delivered the victory but then they were led by a VC decorated anti Semitic Indian with a dog with an offensive name that was killed in action. I am not sure if Gibson has a statue, I am pretty sure if he did it will be coming down. As is the motive by some to pull Churchill and Harris down.

Its a shame we couldn’t have had this debate a month ago when we had VE Day anniversary........the world changes mighty fast, one minute we are out in our front gardens singing we’ll meet again with our neighbours, the next we have people attacking Churchill statues and the cenotaph. Who knew?

 

[Bold Seagull]

No problem, I was genuinely not criticising you. My point was that they bombing campaign was the only effective option to strike at Germany. It may not have been as effective as we understood it to be, but in a fight for your life a stick is better than no stick even if you would prefer a gun.

I would recommend Chastise by Max Hastings, interesting that Harris worked against the dams raid, and Churchill overruled him because he needed a “victory” he could use to get the US to commit to the European theatre above Japan.

Of course the crews ultimately delivered the victory but then they were led by a VC decorated anti Semitic Indian with a dog with an offensive name that was killed in action. I am not sure if Gibson has a statue, I am pretty sure if he did it will be coming down. As is the motive by some to pull Churchill and Harris down.

Its a shame we couldn’t have had this debate a month ago when we had VE Day anniversary........the world changes mighty fast, one minute we are out in our front gardens singing we’ll meet again with our neighbours, the next we have people attacking Churchill statues and the cenotaph. Who knew?

Really interesting, I'll see if I can pick up Chastise as it's been recommended to me before. Of course, we are all different so collectively has many facets, one being we are all enjoying VE day in the sunshine, next another facet is feeling the need to expose our past by destroying a symbol. I don't necessarily see that as contradictory, just that we do have many different ways of looking at things. Perhaps attacking statues is just a one off, and we can all sit back and hopefully engage in a democratic informed debate about it (as we've just been doing).

 

[Icy Gull]

Well done on the 92 days [emoji1303].
Take no notice of that tool, he could start a fight in an empty house.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

92 days during this lockdown is even more impressive!

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

Some of the clowns on here have no idea of the public feeling towards mindless criminal damage , the Silent majority getting mobilised
Regards
DF

 

[Bold Seagull]

Some of the clowns on here have no idea of the public feeling towards mindless criminal damage , the Silent majority getting mobilised
Regards
DF

Once their mobility scooter batteries are all fully charged?