Is no statue safe?

[midnight_rendezvous]

Whatever they are called...No one has two dads or two mums.

You tell yourself whatever helps you sleep at night

 

[Is it PotG?]

If the caps fit.....

That's rather good, not the traditional 'cap fits' but 'caps fit'.

Where DO you get these gems?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

That's rather good, not the traditional 'cap fits' but 'caps fit'.

Where DO you get these gems?

From my brain.

 

[Chicken Run]

Why don’t you play the ball and not the man?

Because you’re intellectually incapable.

Yes, I’m aware that’s ironic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How cute x

 

[Is it PotG?]

From my brain.

Aah, it was going so well.

 

[Pretty pink fairy]

From my brain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xVp1mauGnU

regards
DF

 

[symyjym]

I don't think anyone understands anything anymore. I say that slightly tongue in cheek, but...………

I don't condone the Colston Statue thing, but understand it, because his wealth, whatever he did with it, was built on slavery. I can understand the Cecil Rhodes statue bit in Oxford, because his activities during his lifetime were similarly ultra racist.

I understand it far less for the likes of Churchill and Baden Powell. The statues to them, for example, are inspired by achievements that had absolutely nothing to do with any racist tendencies or actions they had or did. But before anybody comes back on any of that, I realise how complicated these things are.

I jokingly said elsewhere a few days ago that people would be pulling down statues of Mother Teresa next, thinking she was purer than pure, but then was quite rightly regaled with stuff that indicated otherwise, which actually shocked and surprised me. As I have just said, these things are complicated. I now have revised my view of Mother Teresa.

I have not got an issue with certain statues coming down Mother Teresa most certainly included from what I heard, but most in the black community do not even care about them the because there are bigger problems. The statues are superficial but this is more about white people going on a day out virtue signalling with hand written placards to feel good. It's the anarchists and the defund the police narrative and many other agendas for copycat opportunists to pull down statues and vandalise graveyards.

The best analogy I could give would be the same Extinction Rebellion generation are protesting a clean message one day, but the next they are leaving trash and plastic on our beaches for the sea to wash away and not giving a shit.

On Channel 4 on Monday Patrick Hutchinson said that we need more black police officers on all levels. Great idea apart from that recruiting them means their community peers will consider them a sell out working for the opposition. At the BLM protest a black policeman in line was specifically targeted which led to a scuffle with a few other police having to protect him.

Can you see the problem? Just for starters.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

More whatboutery.

I am sure you will find someone reprehensible who is calling for mass change, and think this allows you to imply all anti-racists as extremist loonies or hypocrites.

I didnt see any of the racists, so busy posting now on this and the other thread, posting anything critical of the police and the state of America in the immediate aftermath of the event that triggered the 'year zero' as you scornfully call it. Did you? They popped up later. Priorities....

Surely you aren't happy to align yourself with racist trolls like Das Reich and Baker lite? I thought you were better than that?

The trouble is Hwt anyone not being fully signed up to all aspects of the BLM campaign is immediately put in the closet racist box. I haven't seen anyone condoning or attempting to defend what happened to that poor man (disgusting) it's the aftermath with some people and groups with ulterior motives trying to advance their own agendas which is a legitimate target for criticism.

Fill yer boots on DR but a bit unfair calling Baker lite racist, happy to change my view if have you any examples where he posted anything racist?

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The trouble is Hwt anyone not being fully signed up to all aspects of the BLM campaign is immediately put in the closet racist box. I haven't seen anyone condoning or attempting to defend what happened to that poor man (disgusting) it's the aftermath with some people and groups with ulterior motives trying to advance their own agendas which is a legitimate target for criticism.

Fill yer boots on DR but a bit unfair calling Baker lite racist, happy to change my view if have you any examples where he posted anything racist?

That's a very fair post. But why would anyone not be fully signed up to the BLM campaign? That is quite different, as you appear to know, from the website BLM and the 4 year old 'organisation' of that name, which has allowed itself to be 'linked' with some individuals who are themselves dodgy (this is according to Razzoo, by the way, and when I looked at the website I could find nothing of particular concern - or interest). Likewise, if I see a black person not social distancing at a march I don't authomatically think - 'see, black lives don't matter any more than white lives" as some people posting on NSC are saying.

So why would you not be fully sign up to the idea that black lives matter?

Baker lite's posts are not something I'd care to trawl through. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

 

[symyjym]

I understand that slavery had been going on for centuries before Britains got involved.

However, I’m not comfortable with the framing of this as an Islam compared to Christianity situation as is prevalent in the clip of your profoundly amateurish documentary, he reminds me of something Scientology would produce. The two protagonists clearly have a Christian agenda, the white Aussie fella comes across as particularly sinister and Islamophobic. Historic and contemporary Slavery in the Middle East is more of a problem for those countries than ours, once we’ve solved the issues caused by the Atlantic Slave Trade in this Country, we’ll be much better qualified to point the finger.

My point was that the transatlantic slave trade was not the ‘cherry’ on the top, it was the damned cake because of the effect we see around us now. It was shameful that a Country such as ours who considered itself more civilised than most of the rest of the world sullied it’s hands with such a wretched trade. The power balance effect that was caused can be seen in a lot of areas in this country, I’m not sure you see that effect in the middle-east so much.

Our great country bought slaves off the slave markets that were using the justification of Muhammad and Allah's instructions and conditions which is deeply rooted in their texts.

Amateurish documentary That documentary spoke to deaf people and as long as they weren't blind as well it was clear to see without any commentary you damn fool

 

[JC Footy Genius]

That's a very fair post. But why would anyone not be fully signed up to the BLM campaign? That is quite different, as you appear to know, from the website BLM and the 4 year old 'organisation' of that name, which has allowed itself to be 'linked' with some individuals who are themselves dodgy (this is according to Razzoo, by the way, and when I looked at the website I could find nothing of particular concern - or interest). Likewise, if I see a black person not social distancing at a march I don't authomatically think - 'see, black lives don't matter any more than white lives" as some people posting on NSC are saying.

So why would you not be fully sign up to the idea that black lives matter?

Baker lite's posts are not something I'd care to trawl through. If I'm wrong, I stand corrected.

The principle and slogan is good and can attract widespread support but that support will inevitably diminish when the following campaign involves some people that want to drive a particular agenda, see defund the Police in the US or use criminality or act in a way that gives the racists a chance to undermine the core message.

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

Whatever they are called...No one has two dads or two mums.

I trust you are talking in purely biological terms.

If not, that's my daughter you are talking about!

 

[DavidinSouthampton]

I have not got an issue with certain statues coming down Mother Teresa most certainly included from what I heard, but most in the black community do not even care about them the because there are bigger problems. The statues are superficial but this is more about white people going on a day out virtue signalling with hand written placards to feel good. It's the anarchists and the defund the police narrative and many other agendas for copycat opportunists to pull down statues and vandalise graveyards.

The best analogy I could give would be the same Extinction Rebellion generation are protesting a clean message one day, but the next they are leaving trash and plastic on our beaches for the sea to wash away and not giving a shit.

On Channel 4 on Monday Patrick Hutchinson said that we need more black police officers on all levels. Great idea apart from that recruiting them means their community peers will consider them a sell out working for the opposition. At the BLM protest a black policeman in line was specifically targeted which led to a scuffle with a few other police having to protect him.

Can you see the problem? Just for starters.

I am not really bothered about the statues thing at all.

Why does everyone have "to have an agenda".

Why can't we just all be friends.

This Saturday is the 50th anniversary of my mother dying - 20th June 1970 - when I was 16. I always thought she was an uncomplicated soul, but I can remember her giving people short shrift when they came out with racist remarks or jokes and she would often comment "We're all the same under the skin". I realise now she was the epitome of tolerance way, way before her time. I will raise a glass to her, and to my dad who died exactly six weeks later, on Saturday.

And if anybody says "sorry for your loss", I will just laugh. It was 50 years ago and I have had time to get over it.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

The principle and slogan is good and can attract widespread support but that support will inevitably diminish when the following campaign involves some people that want to drive a particular agenda, see defund the Police in the US or use criminality or act in a way that gives the racists a chance to undermine the core message.

That's all true enough. But it would be wrong to join the ranks of those who want to see its support diminish, surely?

To me and others (not PPF, obviously), BLM is an inspiration and reminder to remember to identify, reject and name racism when we see it. That's all. If I see black racism I'll respond the same. In reality there is nothing more for me to discuss. However I have come back to these threads because I see people coming on and criticising, indeed attacking BLM, making jokes, and sneering. On occasions, ranting and raving, too (about 'white lives mattering', for example - someone started a whole thread on it!).

By being 'not fully signed up' to BLM because of 'some people that want to drive a particular agenda' is not an easy position to justify, though. It could of course be that you have extremely exacting standards. For example, with such standards I would expect that you would never call yourself a Christian because some people become priests to abuse choirboys. Likewise, you would never call yourtself a patriot because David Copeland nail bombed the Admiral Duncan in the name of patriotism, and John Tyndall claimed to be a patriot while being photographed in a nazi uniform.

Personally I'd require a lot more than that to quell my patriotism and, although I'm not a Christian, I can assure you that if I were, I would not renounce my faith because of a few perverts.

What about you? Do you apply to Christianity and patriotism the same exacting critcal standards that you have invoked to explain your attitude to BLM?

There is no need to answer these questions. I'm not trying to have a go at you, just invite you to think a bit more about this. I have slipped into a 'position' on issues myself without realising my unconscious bias was at work. I had an excruciating exchange with a student who'd come to see me last year. I'd not met her before. She's arrived with some other first year students for a tutorial. I let them all in, then stopped and asked her if she had an appointment to see someone. 'Yes' she said. 'I'm part of your tutor group'. She was livid. Thing is, all the other students were 18/19 years old. She is in her 50s. I apologised, but I could see damage had been done. After the meeting, which was frosty, I made a fresh appointment to see her alone where I apologised for, basically, being a dick. No excuses. While we have a large % of students who are BAME, it is probably rare for someone of her age to be used to blending in with other students, and being black as well as old, and being treated like someone who shouldn't be there must have been ****ing insulting, and I felt ashamed. It is through these things we learn lessons.

All the best.

 

[Baker lite]

More whatboutery.

I am sure you will find someone reprehensible who is calling for mass change, and think this allows you to imply all anti-racists as extremist loonies or hypocrites.

I didnt see any of the racists, so busy posting now on this and the other thread, posting anything critical of the police and the state of America in the immediate aftermath of the event that triggered the 'year zero' as you scornfully call it. Did you? They popped up later. Priorities....

Surely you aren't happy to align yourself with racist trolls like Das Reich and Baker lite? I thought you were better than that?

Steady on H...steady on, examples please.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[rogersix]

A lot of the statue removal is, in my view, stable door stuff.

We do need to ensure that the real history is taught and not just the sanitised aren't we wonderful version.

I do wonder about the motivation of some of the peoples actions.
The headstones in Rottingdean have been there since 1962 yet only this week has the church considered them offensive, Hypocrisy. How many churches were funded by wealthy people who made their fortunes at the expense of other peoples suffering but were considered "good christians"
Perhaps these should be removed ?
How many devout muslims are taught about the Arab muslim slave traders who supplied the European slave traders?

if you can't do everything, it doesn't mean you should do nothing

 

[The Clamp]

learning or being brainwashed ?? i know someone who's son was asked by his school teacher to pray like a Muslim in his bedroom
regards
DF

No, no you don’t.

 

[rogersix]

If you did the Romans, Saxons, Vikings and the Normans at school then you should have done slavery, all 4 were invaders that oppressed the inhabitants of this island.

I am pretty sure Tacitus refers to when a Roman Emperor happened across some fair headed blue eyed children from Britain at a Roman Slave Market , and referred to them as Angels.....his words not mine, but enslaved our ancestors were..

The Normans were probably the best documented invaders, the doomsday book references parts of the country that were not of any economic or financial worth (many in Sussex) these records are inconsistent with Saxon records of taxes, which indicates they were levelled by the Normans, check out the Harrying of the North too, a quaint expression for essentially genocide.

The Tudor period was full of religious upheaval, and mob justice.......not great.

Industrial Revolution and the world wars, great areas to explore white privilege.

the saxons invaded?

 

[symyjym]

I am not really bothered about the statues thing at all.

Why does everyone have "to have an agenda".

Why can't we just all be friends.

This Saturday is the 50th anniversary of my mother dying - 20th June 1970 - when I was 16. I always thought she was an uncomplicated soul, but I can remember her giving people short shrift when they came out with racist remarks or jokes and she would often comment "We're all the same under the skin". I realise now she was the epitome of tolerance way, way before her time. I will raise a glass to her, and to my dad who died exactly six weeks later, on Saturday.

And if anybody says "sorry for your loss", I will just laugh. It was 50 years ago and I have had time to get over it.

My dad came from abroad and I am sure sure that he had some prejudice directed towards him and I inherited a stupid surname which didn't help in job applications. Never really overthought it but looking back that could be seen as some kind of prejudice. It's a lot simpler being a Brown, Jones or Smith.

Racism cannot beat racism and this is being dangerously stirred up to the point of the Union Jack being burnt and the cenotaph being blown up. The over spill of this could bring chaos and there are a lot of people with different agendas, including the Middle Eastern ones. All this needs is one very organised terror group to come out of this and it will be which side are you on, and that is my concern.

Anyway I wish you a Brighton win on this 50 years and I shall say no more.

 

[rogersix]

I am not downgrading our part in African slavery and in my previous comment I say that it was brutal. We have all grown up understanding our part. That is not the point.

Don't make me post a link to educate you on the full story on African slavery, on youtube titled The Untold Story of Arab Slave Trade Of Africans. The slave market at Zanzibar can be seen taking place on historic film, and in colour, working as it did do before we turned up on the shores.

It is not called The Untold Story for nothing. Your argument is not with me.

Downgrading our part? No, not at all.

didn't zanzibar take off as a slave trading city because the royal navy blockaded the WEST coast?