The Clamp
Well-known member
Says the man throwing a tantrum because people are disagreeing with him. Beautiful.
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Is no statue safe?
- Thread starter BN9 BHA
- Start date
Says the man throwing a tantrum because people are disagreeing with him. Beautiful.
OzMike
Well-known member
There was some outrage here over the abuse of the Churchill statue.
My brother in law works as a "City Ambassador" in Sheffield town centre. Which basically means he deals with the dregs of society on a daily basis. He's a very intelligent and nice bloke, but can also handle himself.
The other day, he was doing his normal rounds and spotted a bunch of about 20 LADS sat around the war memorial outside City Hall getting pissed. He wandered over and asked them what they were doing.
The answer was that they were "patriots" and were protecting the monument. So he asked them if there had actually been anyone that they needed to protect it from. There hadn't. The only people who were causing any trouble whatsoever was them, shouting abuse at random passers by.
He had a laugh with them but let them know that drinking in the street was actually not allowed and that he'd have to let the coppers know. Then left them to it and made a report.
Then this happened before the rozzers had turned up.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53048455
Top boys. FFS.
The other day, he was doing his normal rounds and spotted a bunch of about 20 LADS sat around the war memorial outside City Hall getting pissed. He wandered over and asked them what they were doing.
The answer was that they were "patriots" and were protecting the monument. So he asked them if there had actually been anyone that they needed to protect it from. There hadn't. The only people who were causing any trouble whatsoever was them, shouting abuse at random passers by.
He had a laugh with them but let them know that drinking in the street was actually not allowed and that he'd have to let the coppers know. Then left them to it and made a report.
Then this happened before the rozzers had turned up.......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-53048455
Top boys. FFS.
I'm beginning to think patriot is actually code for something else ?
GOM
living vicariously
Being someone of their time is nothing like the analogy you tried. You are a person of your time, this very day you are doing things that people all over the country, continent, world are doing. You are not following orders to do something you know is abhorrently wrong (hopefully !)
In a few hundred years though, maybe your actions today will be seen as horrendous, but who knows right now.
Andrew Banks jailed for 14 days for urinating by the memorial to murdered PC Keith Palmer.
Banks said he didn't know what the memorial was for, he had drunk 16 pints on an all-night bender before protests & had attended to "defend statues" but wasn't sure which ones
Patriot. Although I’m more shocked he’s 28! Looks 48
Banks said he didn't know what the memorial was for, he had drunk 16 pints on an all-night bender before protests & had attended to "defend statues" but wasn't sure which ones
Patriot. Although I’m more shocked he’s 28! Looks 48
sydney
tinky ****in winky
16 pints on an all niter.??....****ing lightweight.
Baker lite
Banned
No tantrums here clampy old son, every thing is dandy in the Baker world x
The Clamp
Well-known member
Oh right. Maybe you’re not aware how you’re coming across then. Fair enough. Ignorance is not a crime
- Jan 18, 2009
- 4,994
Jeez, only 2 weeks.......that’s white privilege for you.
The fella trying to set fire to the flag on the cenotaph may as well leave the country, with the colonialist judiciary we have in this country these days he will never see daylight again.
Baker lite
Banned
Oh right. Maybe you’re not aware how you’re coming across then. Fair enough. Ignorance is not a crime
Stay safe x
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Baker lite
Banned
Shame legislation has not been given for stronger sentencing, what a truly despicable piece of poo he is.
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Norman Potting
Well-known member
Also ".............Banks contacted police after being confronted by his father, the court heard........." and "...........His counsel Stuart Harris said his client was "ashamed by his action", and had mental health issues...."
A sad affair all round, good for Mr.H senior though.
A sad affair all round, good for Mr.H senior though.
Thunder Bolt
Silly old bat
Two weeks in prison.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/man-admits-urinating-pc-keith-palmer-memorial-a4469181.html
“Your explanation is you had 16 pints to drink and hadn’t been to bed the night before.”
Banks, a Spurs fan, explained to the police he had been with a group of football fans and attended the demonstration to “protect statues”, but was unaware which statues were said to be under threat.
Spurs fan......
This is the key bit for me. While this chap's actions were not good and he's being rightly punished, it shows that clearly the real people to blame for a lot of this are those who seek to stir the culture war and make it about something it isn't to stir up the plebs into doing their dirty work for them. From the Prime Minister down.
symyjym
Banned
Totally agree. We are just shown the fluffy hippy side of the organisation, and of course why wouldn't anyone want the black community to be treated the same as anyone else. It also makes a great day out virtue signalling. Not much difference from Extinction Rebellion protesting with school children for a day out, yet the same generation of people leaving our beaches in a shit state for all the plastics and rubbish to be washed away into the sea.
However when we look deeper into BLM and the cogs behind it all it is a little bit more sinister than what we are led to believe. Fortunately not all the members of the black community buy into it, and it's only when they are listened to that we can understand why. They understand that black betterment has been hijacked for political reasons and it has only incited a hatred of white people. There is plenty of footage out there of violent racist attacks on innocent white people which is not reported, and with views from the black community who are critics of BLM but I won't post the video on here because I will be removed from this thread.
My dad was an immigrant and I am only half English before I am accused of being racist again on here.
- Aug 8, 2005
- 27,512
Great article here. Nail on head.
It was utterly absurd that a load of far-right thugs and bovver boys converged on London with a mission to protect the statue of Winston Churchill. It was right that a good number should have been arrested. They were violent. They were aggressive towards the police. They were patently racist. There is nothing that can excuse their behaviour.
And yet it was also, frankly, absurd and deplorable that the statue of Winston Churchill should have been in any plausible danger of attack. It was outrageous that anyone could even have claimed that the statue needed protection. It was and is miserable to see his statue entombed in its protective sheath.
It is true that the monument has been covered up several times before, in anticipation of trouble, after consultation with the Mayor’s office and English Heritage, because the police believe that is the safest and simplest thing to do. But many people will look at that image and feel a sense of bewilderment.
Why attack Churchill? What has the world come to when one of this country’s greatest ever leaders – perhaps our greatest - has to be shielded from the wrath of the mob? We all understand the depth of feeling that has been exposed by the killing, in Minnesota, of George Floyd. No one who cares about this country can ignore the many thousands of people who have joined the Black Lives Movement to protest peacefully, as most of them have, in the last few days. It is no use just saying that we have made huge progress in tackling racism.
There is much more that we need to do; and we will. It is time for a cross-governmental commission to look at all aspects of inequality – in employment, in health outcomes, in academic and all other walks of life. We need to tackle the substance of the problem, not the symbols. We need to address the present, not attempt to re-write the past – and that means we cannot and must not get sucked into never-ending debate about which well-known historical figure is sufficiently pure or politically correct to remain in public view.
Where will it end? Are we supposed to haul down Cromwell who killed so many thousands of people in Ireland? What about Nelson and all the other innumerable reminders of this country’s imperial past? Take the case of Ayuba Suleiman Diallo, whose portrait hangs in Room 15 of the National Portrait Gallery. He was a native of the Gambia who was known and admired in C18 London as a translator of Arab texts. He was also, originally, a slaver himself. Does that mean he should be purged from the Gallery?
My point is that our history is immensely complex, and modern Britain is a product of a vast conglomerate of ideas and beliefs – not all of which look good in the light of today. Yes, Churchill expressed all sorts of views over his immense career – and bear in mind that he entered parliament under Queen Victoria and left it under Queen Elizabeth - which are totally unacceptable to modern ears.
As it happens, he generally changed with the times. He changed his view on India, and her capacity for independence; and whatever he may have said about Islam in the 1890s, he also built the Regent’s Park Mosque in the 1940s. And above all – as so many have rightly pointed out – it is the height of lunacy to accuse him of racism, when he stood alone against a racist tyranny that without his resistance would have overwhelmed this country and the rest of Europe.
He was a hero, and I expect I am not alone in saying that I will resist with every breath in my body any attempt to remove that statue from Parliament Square, and the sooner his protective shielding comes off the better.
It is not just that is wrong to destroy public property by violence. I am also extremely dubious about the growing campaign to edit or photoshop the entire cultural landscape. If we start purging the record and removing the images of all but those whose attitudes conform to our own, we are engaged in a great lie, a distortion of our history – like some public figure furtively trying to make themselves look better by editing their own Wikipedia entry.
Would it not be better and more honest to ask our children to understand the context, to explain the mixture of good and bad in the career of Churchill and everyone else? And rather than tear some people down, we should build others up, and celebrate the people who we in this generation believe are worthy of memorial. We have brilliant sculptors and artists. Why should they not be commissioned to make fitting additions to the landscape and cityscape? Take the great courtyard in the Foreign and Commonwealth office, where stone statues of British explorers and imperialists look down from the niches. Many of the niches are for some reason unfilled.
Rather than tear down the past, why not add some of the men and women – most often BAME – who helped to make our modern Commonwealth and our modern world? Isn’t that a more cheerful approach?
This new vogue for politically correct iconoclasm is not just dispiriting, and unfair, and often ahistorical. Worst of all, it is a total distraction from the matter in hand. It does nothing for BAME people to go around mutilating statues, or campaigning against this or that cultural relic. There are far greater and more important battles.
In the last ten years we have seen a big expansion in BAME students at our universities; more young black kids excelling in the most challenging subjects at school. The struggle now is to turn that into the universal narrative and the universal expectation – a story of success and not discrimination. That means taking seriously the serious points that are raised by the marchers. It means addressing racism and discrimination, and stamping it out.
But it does not mean wasting time in delectable academic disputation about the life and opinions of every historical personality currently immortalised in bronze or stone.
Let’s fight racism, but leave our heritage broadly in peace. If we really want to change it, there are democratic means available in this country – thanks, by the way, to Winston Churchill.
Originally published in the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/14/rather-tear-people-should-build-others/
It was utterly absurd that a load of far-right thugs and bovver boys converged on London with a mission to protect the statue of Winston Churchill. It was right that a good number should have been arrested. They were violent. They were aggressive towards the police. They were patently racist. There is nothing that can excuse their behaviour.
And yet it was also, frankly, absurd and deplorable that the statue of Winston Churchill should have been in any plausible danger of attack. It was outrageous that anyone could even have claimed that the statue needed protection. It was and is miserable to see his statue entombed in its protective sheath.
It is true that the monument has been covered up several times before, in anticipation of trouble, after consultation with the Mayor’s office and English Heritage, because the police believe that is the safest and simplest thing to do. But many people will look at that image and feel a sense of bewilderment.
Why attack Churchill? What has the world come to when one of this country’s greatest ever leaders – perhaps our greatest - has to be shielded from the wrath of the mob? We all understand the depth of feeling that has been exposed by the killing, in Minnesota, of George Floyd. No one who cares about this country can ignore the many thousands of people who have joined the Black Lives Movement to protest peacefully, as most of them have, in the last few days. It is no use just saying that we have made huge progress in tackling racism.
There is much more that we need to do; and we will. It is time for a cross-governmental commission to look at all aspects of inequality – in employment, in health outcomes, in academic and all other walks of life. We need to tackle the substance of the problem, not the symbols. We need to address the present, not attempt to re-write the past – and that means we cannot and must not get sucked into never-ending debate about which well-known historical figure is sufficiently pure or politically correct to remain in public view.
Where will it end? Are we supposed to haul down Cromwell who killed so many thousands of people in Ireland? What about Nelson and all the other innumerable reminders of this country’s imperial past? Take the case of Ayuba Suleiman Diallo, whose portrait hangs in Room 15 of the National Portrait Gallery. He was a native of the Gambia who was known and admired in C18 London as a translator of Arab texts. He was also, originally, a slaver himself. Does that mean he should be purged from the Gallery?
My point is that our history is immensely complex, and modern Britain is a product of a vast conglomerate of ideas and beliefs – not all of which look good in the light of today. Yes, Churchill expressed all sorts of views over his immense career – and bear in mind that he entered parliament under Queen Victoria and left it under Queen Elizabeth - which are totally unacceptable to modern ears.
As it happens, he generally changed with the times. He changed his view on India, and her capacity for independence; and whatever he may have said about Islam in the 1890s, he also built the Regent’s Park Mosque in the 1940s. And above all – as so many have rightly pointed out – it is the height of lunacy to accuse him of racism, when he stood alone against a racist tyranny that without his resistance would have overwhelmed this country and the rest of Europe.
He was a hero, and I expect I am not alone in saying that I will resist with every breath in my body any attempt to remove that statue from Parliament Square, and the sooner his protective shielding comes off the better.
It is not just that is wrong to destroy public property by violence. I am also extremely dubious about the growing campaign to edit or photoshop the entire cultural landscape. If we start purging the record and removing the images of all but those whose attitudes conform to our own, we are engaged in a great lie, a distortion of our history – like some public figure furtively trying to make themselves look better by editing their own Wikipedia entry.
Would it not be better and more honest to ask our children to understand the context, to explain the mixture of good and bad in the career of Churchill and everyone else? And rather than tear some people down, we should build others up, and celebrate the people who we in this generation believe are worthy of memorial. We have brilliant sculptors and artists. Why should they not be commissioned to make fitting additions to the landscape and cityscape? Take the great courtyard in the Foreign and Commonwealth office, where stone statues of British explorers and imperialists look down from the niches. Many of the niches are for some reason unfilled.
Rather than tear down the past, why not add some of the men and women – most often BAME – who helped to make our modern Commonwealth and our modern world? Isn’t that a more cheerful approach?
This new vogue for politically correct iconoclasm is not just dispiriting, and unfair, and often ahistorical. Worst of all, it is a total distraction from the matter in hand. It does nothing for BAME people to go around mutilating statues, or campaigning against this or that cultural relic. There are far greater and more important battles.
In the last ten years we have seen a big expansion in BAME students at our universities; more young black kids excelling in the most challenging subjects at school. The struggle now is to turn that into the universal narrative and the universal expectation – a story of success and not discrimination. That means taking seriously the serious points that are raised by the marchers. It means addressing racism and discrimination, and stamping it out.
But it does not mean wasting time in delectable academic disputation about the life and opinions of every historical personality currently immortalised in bronze or stone.
Let’s fight racism, but leave our heritage broadly in peace. If we really want to change it, there are democratic means available in this country – thanks, by the way, to Winston Churchill.
Originally published in the Telegraph: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/06/14/rather-tear-people-should-build-others/