Is Mo Farrah the greatest ever British sportsman?

[jimbob5]

It's a tough one. Steve Kember has to be up there.

 

[Seagull58]

He's from Northern Ireland.

In that case he must have a very good claim to be at least one of the top 3 or 4 Britsh sportsman ever. 20 successive champion jockey titles is almost inconceivable, especially when you consider that he has had around 1,000 falls and broken many bones.

 

[Goldstone1976]

So did the England football team.

Yep. Didn't mean to imply that he was the only one. It's an interesting debate: to what extent should other areas of one's life impugn the record of what one is best known for? It applies to sports people, artists, composers, scientists, etc.

 

[Simster]

Do you agree with Brendan Foster?

Last night, he stated (admittedly in an emotional state) that Mo Farah was possibly the greatest sportsman this country has ever produced.

It's certainly both debatable and contentious, but it says an awful lot about how good Farah really is. Just highlighting what he's managed to do, he has managed to do something incredible - hold the Olympic title at 5k and 10k, and is also now back to back World Champion, again at both events.

We've always been strong at athletics, but he probably surpasses Seb Coe, Steve Ovett and Cram. And Daley Thompson. I can't think of any other British athlete so dominant over an extended period of time.

So what of other sports? We can rule out football, I think. Nobody has been as successfull as Farah. Same goes for both rugby codes and cricket. None of those sports have the same global reach as athletics and in any case, there can't be many utterly dominant participants over a sustained period of time from these shores in any case.

Tennis, we don't have a Federer who might provide genuine competition to this contention. We do have rowers (and one in particular) but rowing isnt anything like as competitive as running, worldwide. We've produced some quality world class cyclists of course, with Wiggins, Froome, Cav, Hoy leading the charge, so I'd say this is the sport with the strongest alternative best ever sportsman. Maybe boxing or golfing fans would dispute that.

So I think Foster might have been speaking emotionally, but actually he may also really have a case. What do you think?

 

[Uncle Spielberg]

Its the nature of that event, they are often run tactically and particularly in major championships. Some countries run as a team and slow the race up and then speed it up suddenly to try to break up the field for example. If you look at all of their individual PB's they are pretty impressive.

Farrah, does not hold a single World record in any event he has competed in, he is 12 seconds off the 5000 World record, he holds the indoor 2 mile record which is hardly ever contested, as I said 13 50 was something a club runner would have been disappointed to get, for me the guy has had luck in that he has not had to compete historically with any decent rivals in his time

 

[Carrot Cruncher]

Did you miss the thread about 8 down on this very subject, Sim...?

Good post, mind.

 

[Bakero]

https://nortr3nixy.nimpr.uk/showthread.php?326209-Is-Mo-Farrah-the-greatest-ever-British-sportsman

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Farrah, does not hold a single World record in any event he has competed in, he is 12 seconds off the 5000 World record, he holds the indoor 2 mile record which is hardly ever contested, as I said 13 50 was something a club runner would have been disappointed to get, for me the guy has had luck in that he has not had to compete historically with any decent rivals in his time

I can't speak for 5 and 10k, maybe someone can, but at the marathon distance WRs are often achieved when the field is weak and the race isn't therefore tactical. If the field is strong no one will want to lead from the start which is what you need to do for a WR. My point is that it might be the case the lack of a WR is due to decent rivals as opposed to a lack of them? Just a thought.

 

[Beach Hut]

Steve Redgrave for me by a country mile, 20 years, 5 olympics and 5 gold medals

I doubt any sportsman in the world can top that.

 

[GT49er]

Yep. Didn't mean to imply that he was the only one. It's an interesting debate: to what extent should other areas of one's life impugn the record of what one is best known for? It applies to sports people, artists, composers, scientists, etc.

Yes, but damning people for contact with Hitler in the thirties is unjustified. At the time he was just another head of state of a friendly country - it took time for knowledge of the evils being committed to seep through to the British national consciousness. Indeed, to many it would have seemed at first that Hitler was doing a decent job of rebuilding Germany.

 

[jimbob5]

Steve Redgrave for me by a country mile, 20 years, 5 olympics and 5 gold medals

I doubt any sportsman in the world can top that.

What about a nautical mile might I smugly suggest in my sneering way?

 

[big nuts]

Farrah, does not hold a single World record in any event he has competed in, he is 12 seconds off the 5000 World record, he holds the indoor 2 mile record which is hardly ever contested, as I said 13 50 was something a club runner would have been disappointed to get, for me the guy has had luck in that he has not had to compete historically with any decent rivals in his time

What club runners would be disappointed with that time? I can't imagine too many otherwise they would be pushing for selection for team GB.

 

[big nuts]

Do you? When I was of sporting age I knew absolutely nobody who had joined an athletics club. Hence there is not one in every village, town and city in the country. There are however football, cricket, even rugby of one code or another in every town, village and city. That however is a side point (that i raised). Simple fact is that some people have natural skill, people like George Best. They will be good at football, cricket, table tennis, just about anything. Athletics and cycling is about getting from A to B. It's not skilful. Yes its a great achievement with lots of hard work, I'm just saying that it doesnt make the runner a great sportsman. Just good at running and lots of hard work. A sportsman is someone who can pick up a sport and without much effort be good at it. Also take a sideways look at anyone the BBC call a legend these days.They were calling womens footballers legends a few weeks ago. I have not worked out whether that was a political agenda to promote sexual equality or whether they felt they had to say it because sky have taken all the sports that most people are interested in.

There are running clubs up and down the land, running is incredibly popular at the moment with marathons down to 5k races fully subscribed.

I disagree I think there is a skill to top level running when you factor in tactics but even if I were to concede your point you don't need to demonstrate skill to be a sportsman.

The shape and mental toughness of runners, cyclists, weight lifters etc... Stands them out from everyday people.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I think a lot of these views about whether a sport is skilful or not simply come down to whether you understand the sport sufficiently to comment.

You can't have read the article I posted about Mo Farah so I will copy and paste the relevant bit:

"What of the contest itself? When Tiger Woods - rightly considered extraordinary for winning 14 of his first 46 majors - settles over his ball on tee or green, he is executing a closed skill. The only one who can affect the club or ball is him. There will be immense pressure, but there will also be silence.

When Serena Williams - about to tilt at the calendar Grand Slam at the US Open, 21 Slam single titles from 25 finals - winds up one of her car-crusher serves, or hits one of those mighty forehands, she has one opponent to worry about.

Farah, enjoying a similarly dominant streak on the track, has the same pressure of the grand occasion. He is also surrounded by 14 men trying to mess with his race and his head, able to sit in his eyeline or breathe down his neck, or ease an unseen elbow into his ribs.
He has one group of three working as a team, taking it in turns to hurt him, and then the same again in the vest of another nation. He has also had a heat get through just to get this far, and in Farah's case, a 10,000m final under the same immense duress less than a week before, in which the number of opponents climbs to 27.

Running isn't as difficult a skill as hitting a three-iron to six feet or volleying a ball coming back at you at 80 miles an hour, right?
Consider one tiny nuance of hundreds. If you run a single lap of a track in lane two rather than lane one - because there is no room on the curb, or because you are trying to get past a rival, let alone three of them - you are forced to run 6.8 metres further than your rival inside.
That 6.8m at the end of a race doesn't just separate gold from silver. It can separate gold from 'I'd forgotten that bloke was running'.
Kenya's Caleb Ndiku (left) and Mo Farah
Ndiku (left) pushed Farah to his limits on the final lap before enjoying a playful joust in the aftermath
That is just one lap in a 12-and-a-half-lap 5,000m race. And it is only one miniscule variable in the ever-changing permutations.

We talk about footballers who have the vision to pick out the perfect pass at the optimum time. In a distance race, a champion must be capable not only of spotting what is actually happening all around them, in front and behind, to their left and their right, but to work out what those 14 rivals might be thinking of doing too. That takes you so far.

They then need the weapons to respond to all those myriad possibilities and outcomes - not just one great tool, like the boxer who has a great jab or a fantastic ability to slip the punches, but all of them: the ability to go hard from gun to tape; to run alternating laps flat out and then slow, as opponents gang up and take it in turns to dish out the pain; to wind it up from 800 metres out; to blast out a last 400 metres that can blow the rest away"

This is the same as the other sport that you claim has no skill 'cycling', try to imagine the bike handling skills required in order to be able ride at high speeds in close quarters with other riders. Individual riders can approach speeds of 70 mph while descending winding mountain roads and may reach speeds of 40-50 mph during the final sprint to the finish line all the time having to be aware of all the riders around them and respond as appropriate.

This.

 

[Working class pride]

There are running clubs up and down the land, running is incredibly popular at the moment with marathons down to 5k races fully subscribed.

I disagree I think there is a skill to top level running when you factor in tactics but even if I were to concede your point you don't need to demonstrate skill to be a sportsman.

The shape and mental toughness of runners, cyclists, weight lifters etc... Stands them out from everyday people.

There is not a running club in every town and village, there is a football and cricket team. Sure there are lots of fun runs where even I might join in to raise a few bob for charity, but that is not sport, its a day out and a jog around a park.

The main difference between us is the shape and mental point you make. You are not wrong and neither am I, we just look at things through a different end of a telescope. For me shape and mental toughness help when playing sport, but they do not make a sportsman. Skill does, Messi, Viv Richards, Don Bradman, Warne, and George Best (never accused of focus or mental toughness!). For me being an athlete is a great thing to be, but an athlete does not make a sportsman, it just makes an athlete. Look at many "athletes" playing football. They look good, better than Messi, but Messi is a great sportsman but not an athlete. I bet that if Messi played cricket, table tennis or golf then he would be good at them as well. Its about skill and hand eye co-ordination. It's probably also why the BBC have left only minority sports that nobody cares about. The cream of sport is on sky.

 

[GloryDays]

I know it's only triple jump, and about as useful as Anne Frank's drum kit, but what about Jonathan Edwards?

He's got to make a list. World record of 20 years still intact and numerous medals as an individual representative of GB.

And he's a nice guy.

 

[W.C.]

No.

Bradley Wiggins.

The range and scope of his victories, Olympic 4 km pursuit champion, Olympic TT champion, world TT champion, oh and the TdF no less, as well as numerous other road stage races and victories (including a sprint stage) puts him well ahead IMO.

Yeah but he did it all on a bike! Mo doesn't cheat like that.

 

[Maldini]

Possibly Nigel Benn but definitely not Steve Redgrave?

A bit of an odd choice in my view, but all about opinions!

I said not Steve Redgrave because he was part of a team.He didn't do it alone.

Also if I wanted to be a well known sportsman and didn't care what sport I chose to be known,
I would choose something like rowing or bobsleigh.
In football there are zillions trying to make it to the top but in these two sports far far less
therefore it's far easier to make it.

 

[Maldini]

From the world of bodybuilding Dorian Yates.
Winner of Mr.Olympia six years in a row which is like a team winning the European Cup six years in a row.
It is bodybuildings premier competition.

 

[Geestar]

Phil Taylor. You can say its only darts but he has been at the top of his game for so long. No one comes close to his record.