Is it time to think about turning us into a REAL 'community club'?

[attila]

Is it time to start thinking about turning us into a REAL ‘community club?’


I certainly feel like a supporter of a ‘community club’ in the sense that it is because of the actions of the community of fans that the Albion came through the dark days and still exists, and of course many of the people who were at the heart of the action then are involved in the everyday running of the club today.

The economic reality is of course something else. When a few of us sat in the Centre for Dispute Resolution of the CBI all those years ago, alongside Dick Knight, confronting Archer, we were in starkly realistic terms observing a power struggle between businessmen, supporting a decent businessman who had the best interests of our club at heart and opposing one who manifestly didn’t.

In UK business law we fans had no power whatsoever. Our (only) power lay in the fact that we could make Archer’s life a misery and drag his name and that of his various concerns through the mud. Which we did, most effectively.

But let’s not kid ourselves. To be a true ‘community club’ we supporters have to ‘own it, lock stock and barrel’ as Archer once jeered at us that he did. Otherwise, all we are doing is arguing which businessman or group of businessmen should own our club in our stead (with the one perceived to have the most money often blindly perceived to be the most fitting, which is, erm, rather short sighted!) The spectre of the FA throwing up their hands in the Archer years and saying ‘it’s a business matter, not a football one’ is one many of us will never forget.

So what do we do about it?

1) Carry on as now, backing DK or in the case of a minority, calling him ‘potless’ and championing some other plutocrat as the saviour of the Albion

or

2) Start seriously thinking about a supporters’ trust and a Brentford/Bournemouth style takeover?

It would need an awful lot more people to be prepared to give lots of precious time to the Albion outside the ‘usual suspects’. And we’d have to raise a hell of a lot of money.
But it has been done before, and if Brentford can do it, then, logically, we can too.



Discuss.

 

[Da Man Clay]

Id like to think we could go for number 2 but I dont think we would find enough investors.

 

[Dave the OAP]

For one of teh most loyal, bleed blue and white fans to come on here and suggest such a thing shows the depth of feeling for our club ( notice OUR Club).

Atilla, do you think there is the will at the club to allow something like this?

 

[Titanic]

As a 'Community Club' owned by some of the fans we would always be strapped for cash ?

Unless one or two of the fans had pots of money... then they would be slightly more equal than others...

I don't see it really.

Isn't it better to have a board, preferably made up of business men who are fans and have some cash! And for us to support the club, while keeping a critical eye on the management and board decisions ? If that means having some sort of formal organisation (like a supporters trust) then fine, but we have managed OK recently without that.

 

[tedebear]

Community Club is a socialist ideal....someone would still have to run it - someone would still have their decisions picked over disagreed with, ridiculed and questioned....given the amount of dissent amongst this small gathering of Brighton fans here on NSC - I daresay it wouldn't solve anything...

 

[Tooting Gull]

On balance, I believe the model with chairman/directors drawn from hopefully local businessmen and maybe the odd accountant/solicitor thrown in, is still the one best equipped to provide a stable, resourced and successful club.

As Attila has said, even if fans have no great legal power, they can make the 'wrong' chairman's life a misery, and that will always count for something.

While I think we are a 'community club' - something that LDC have never got from the start - I just don't want to hear the term used too widely. It is a bit cheesy, and makes us sound as if we think we are more of a community club than say Rotherham or some other clubs, which I don't think we are.

I don't feel the same about the term 'Community Stadium' though - that is what it is, and what it would serve in so many ways.

 

[rool]

I don't think a buy out would be possible or practical at this time, especially with the Falmer issue going on.

I was one of the people who refused to contribute cash to alive and kicking on the basis of lack of accountability but would be happy to contribute, or maybe invest would be the right word, to a properly run supporters trust with board representation and possible voting rights depending on the amount invested. Ideally the representatives would be put up for election each year and would hopefully not be made up of the 'usual suspects' who are now far too close to the club to be objective when it was necessary. There have been far too many jobs for the boys in the last few years in my opinion.

 

[The Large One]

On the whole, I am quite taken with the idea of supporters running the club. However, this is a club with a certain level of insititutional apathy among the supporters.

At the end of the day, I simply don't think there is the will to have that kind of organisation at the club. And when I say that, I specifically mean Brighton & Hove Albion. It is a club located within a white, Anglo-Saxon, middle-class city/county which still looks down its nose at something as vulgar as football.

In reality, the Supporters' Trust will be launched when Falmer is being built - until then people just will not put money into a club with what is perceived as having no guaranteed future.

Until such time as a public organisation, the local authority, or a QUANGO, if you like comes in to run (or at least having a major say in) a club in a similar manner to some parts of Europe, football clubs will always be the preserve of the rich and extrovert. Brighton & Hove City Council, for instance, just will not consider the eventuality of having a say in the club - all sorts of legislation and red tape would be put up simply because that is how local authorities are run. Setting up some kind of council or organisation to run the club is possibly a decent move, but we always, always, always come back to the same point - money.

And I just don't think that kind of will is here in Sussex.

We, as fans, must grasp the responsibility we have within us to carry the club forward - and this is something I fear is sadly lacking at times at Brighton & Hove Albion. Many people just see a football club whose team they want to win, win, win - whatever it takes. What many appear to forget is, because it is supposed to be a 'Community Club', it does encompass many aspects of community life. Just because we don't get to see it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In the end, the 'community' which can help doesn't bother its arse to get involved, and is prepared to sit back and let others lead. When this lead isn't really working, or things just aren't going well, then the people who could get involved (but don't) start moaning, not realising that if they REALLY wanted to, they could help to change it for the better. But they don't - and that's what I mean by institutional apathy.

And on the ground, how would the hierarchy within the club work? Someone, somewhere must ultimately take responsibility for a given decision. Who hires and fires? Who decides the deals? As much as what has happened at Bournemouth and Brentford, are they in a better or worse position? And is that because of, or in spite of their takeovers?

In other words, aside from the fans having a greater role (a vital componenet admittedly), what would change? The end of The Who song, 'Won't Get Fooled Again' springs to mind - 'Meet the new boss, same as the old boss...'

 

[Simster]

I prefer the ideal of a chairman and board, reigned in by the requirement of an elected fans representative sitting on the board - simply because it allows limited accountability whilst encouraging investment. I'm sure it wouldn't be perfect but possibly the best available?

I'd worry that with the community model, nothing would ever get done, and it wouldn't promote investment from wealthy backers.

In the end, the most important thing is that there are clauses in the articles of assocation (or whatever it is) that prevents asset stripping or over-borrowing based on decisions made by single board members.

 

[Simster]

There have been far too many jobs for the boys in the last few years in my opinion.

Interesting. Who do you mean?

 

[Brovion]

I said on the other thread, we can't be a 'community' club all the while the shares are owned by a few wealthy people. I feel we must have a Supporters' Trust buying shares in the club. Over time with extra share issues the Trust can increase it's stake eventually owns the majority of the club.

 

[tedebear]

I prefer the ideal of a chairman and board, reigned in by the requirement of an elected fans representative sitting on the board - simply because it allows limited accountability whilst encouraging investment. I'm sure it wouldn't be perfect but possibly the best available?

I'd worry that with the community model, nothing would ever get done, and it wouldn't promote investment from wealthy backers.

In the end, the most important thing is that there are clauses in the articles of assocation (or whatever it is) that prevents asset stripping or over-borrowing based on decisions made by single board members.

makes sense to me!!

 

[The Large One]

I don't think a buy out would be possible or practical at this time, especially with the Falmer issue going on.

I was one of the people who refused to contribute cash to alive and kicking on the basis of lack of accountability but would be happy to contribute, or maybe invest would be the right word, to a properly run supporters trust with board representation and possible voting rights depending on the amount invested. Ideally the representatives would be put up for election each year and would hopefully not be made up of the 'usual suspects' who are now far too close to the club to be objective when it was necessary. There have been far too many jobs for the boys in the last few years in my opinion.

What aspects do you want to see as being more accountable? What are you not happy about?

 

[Ernest]

Interesting. Who do you mean?

The one who started this thread is one

 

[BensGrandad]

Perhaps I am missing the plot slightly but even if this was a ' community owned club' unless every single investor had equal shares we would still be back with the idea of I own £100 worth of shares and Mr Smith down the road owns £20,000 because he could afford to buy more. You would then finish up with perhaps 50 major shareholders and 2,000 minor. With insufficient money to fund future developement and certainly insufficient to fund a new stadium. Or am I completely wrong?

 

[attila]

One more time, Rochdale, you old wind up merchant. Just checked in the dictionary. 'Job' is defined as 'paid employment'..since I have never been paid a penny by the Albion and buy a season ticket, I don't think so! A

 

[Dave the OAP]

uncalled for Ernest!

I am up for an albion fan on the board ( obviously he/she will be non-exec) in the same was that copper bloke is, but I do think it would help in getting accross to the management that certain things happen in the club that the supporters are not happy about and feel they are not consulted about.


I'll do it. Feed me raw meat and i'll go for Blooms jugular...LOL

 

[chip]

Perhaps I am missing the plot slightly but even if this was a ' community owned club' unless every single investor had equal shares we would still be back with the idea of I own £100 worth of shares and Mr Smith down the road owns £20,000 because he could afford to buy more. You would then finish up with perhaps 50 major shareholders and 2,000 minor. With insufficient money to fund future developement and certainly insufficient to fund a new stadium. Or am I completely wrong?

It works with mutual societies where each member has one vote.

However, I don't think that a supporters trust could service the losses that the club incurs or raise the capital to build Falmer (which may or may not make the club viable). If Falmer is built, then I cannot imagine that it would be possible to purchase the whole club.

What a supporters trust could do though is buy a share of the club and achieve some direct board-level control - rather like pension fund managers. If that share holding was low it would be ineffective and if it were high it would deter the "investors" that would be needed to achieve the ambitions of many supporters. I wouldn't like to be the supporters trust director - hardest job in the world .

Probably best left to the current owners who haven't done a bad job over the past 9 years.

 

[Dandyman]

It works with mutual societies where each member has one vote.

However, I don't think that a supporters trust could service the losses that the club incurs or raise the capital to build Falmer (which may or may not make the club viable). If Falmer is built, then I cannot imagine that it would be possible to purchase the whole club.

What a supporters trust could do though is buy a share of the club and achieve some direct board-level control - rather like pension fund managers. If that share holding was low it would be ineffective and if it were high it would deter the "investors" that would be needed to achieve the ambitions of many supporters. I wouldn't like to be the supporters trust director - hardest job in the world .

Probably best left to the current owners who haven't done a bad job over the past 9 years.

A supporters Trust could put a reasonable amount of investment into the club. If the Trust had 2000 members with a contribution of £500 each, for example, that is £1 million. For a club of our size that could be a significant share holding.

 

[Dave the OAP]

A supporters Trust could put a reasonable amount of investment into the club. If the Trust had 2000 members with a contribution of £500 each, for example, that is £1 million. For a club of our size that could be a significant share holding.

yes but would fans be happy to see that all dissapear into the black hole