[Albion] Is it time to hand out really harsh sentences for just carrying a knife ?

[Postman Pat]

I don't understand why Knives are still sold with a point, its an anachronism and they should have curved ends.

Appreciate that someone could still sharpen it down, but then that becomes a significant offence rather than anyone just grabbing any old kitchen knife for protection.

 

[WATFORD zero]

Approx 1 in 10 cases in the criminal courts are non payment of licence fee, a crime where 80% of those successfully prosecuted are poor and vulnerable women.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...d38/1648538172676/2022_03_29+TVL+Briefing.pdf

Decriminalising non payment would protect these women, and free up court time for the prosecution of knife wielding aspiring architects and all round good lads.

So the reason you scrounge off good law abiding BBC licence payers is to show your support for poor and vulnerable women

I bet Ppf wishes he'd thought of that somewhat original defence for scrounging

 

[Guinness Boy]

Will nobody think of the chefs?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Those are heard in magistrates' courts. Magistrates can't hand down sentences of a year so they would have to be held in crown courts - where there's currently a backlog of two or three years

Just over one third of magistrates court cases are motoring offences. If people learned to drive considerately, paying insurance and not speeding, then there wouldn't be as much of a backlog.

https://fullfact.org/news/do-tv-lic...ose who want to watch,one in ten court cases".

 

[dejavuatbtn]

If we can’t build more prisons or detention centres then I heard that Rwanda is happy to take people in. On the basis that in Victorian times you got 7 years deportation for just stealing a loaf of bread, people carrying knives shouldn’t grumble that they were being hard done by.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Will nobody think of the chefs?

The most common methods of storage for transporting chef knives, knife wallets and roll bags have a number of compartments capable of holding different sized and shaped knives, and roll or fold up to make them easier to carry. From affordable nylon and canvas wallets secured with ties or Velcro straps to the seriously sophisticated leather roll bags secured with brass buckles for added piece of mind, there’s an option to suit every pocket.

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/the-law-on-carrying-chef-knives

Sikhs are also allowed to carry knives.

 

[Whitechapel]

only need to build lots of prisons if no one is deterred. if we assume locking people up for merely carrying a weapon will be an effective deterent, should only take a few cases to be effective.

the alternative is what? few posters and dont carry knives ads, sending them on their way until they are arrested again isnt working. locking them up after injury and murder seems kinda too late.

How about we tackle the root cause of why the people feel the need to carry knives?

A lot of the young people carrying knives do so because their genuine belief is that they need it to protect their life. Doubling or tripling the sentence isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference to somebody who thinks the alternative is being killed.

Glasgow used to be the knife crime capital of Europe. The improvement it has made when it comes to knife crime is miraculous. The way to solve the issue is there, but unfortunately we live in a system where young, poor people mainly killing or maiming other young poor people has its benefits so nothing changes.

https://www.theweek.co.uk/100066/how-glasgow-is-beating-knife-crime?amp

 

[drew]

Approx 1 in 10 cases in the criminal courts are non payment of licence fee, a crime where 80% of those successfully prosecuted are poor and vulnerable women.

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...d38/1648538172676/2022_03_29+TVL+Briefing.pdf

Decriminalising non payment would protect these women, and free up court time for the prosecution of knife wielding aspiring architects and all round good lads.

The link says that there were 55k prosecutions in 2020 but the following link says there were about 1.1m cases before magistrates and crown courts. So quite a bit less than 1 in 10!!!

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-8372/CBP-8372.pdf

 

[mikeyjh]

This could open up a huge swathe of arguments about what is good reason, and what constitutes evidence? The courts / police are already overwhelmed as it is. Would it include things like small pocket knives, butter knife? Or just of a certain size / type? And so on.

Absolutely this - I've almost always got knives on me - In this particular rural location, it's more of a surprise if someone hasn't got a knife on them (normally mutli tool type things, often with very sharp pointed blades). While absolutely supporting an attack on knife crime, as ever in these instances you have to be careful not to criminalise people just going about their business.

 

[portlock seagull]

The most common methods of storage for transporting chef knives, knife wallets and roll bags have a number of compartments capable of holding different sized and shaped knives, and roll or fold up to make them easier to carry. From affordable nylon and canvas wallets secured with ties or Velcro straps to the seriously sophisticated leather roll bags secured with brass buckles for added piece of mind, there’s an option to suit every pocket.

https://www.nisbets.co.uk/the-law-on-carrying-chef-knives

Sikhs are also allowed to carry knives.

What about Sikhs with criminal records? Surely there’s accommodating different cultures and then there’s…?

 

[Springal]

Just over one third of magistrates court cases are motoring offences. If people learned to drive considerately, paying insurance and not speeding, then there wouldn't be as much of a backlog.

https://fullfact.org/news/do-tv-lic...ose who want to watch,one in ten court cases".

Not like the OP so misrepresent ‘facts’ / lie to suit a narrative.

We need strong stop / search tactics on target demographics unfortunately, without middling from those communities. Facts tell us between 50-60% (London) of knife crime are within a certain demographic so let the police put more attention on them day to day.

 

[Justice]

Yes automatic jail sentence for anyone caught carrying a knife unless there is a good reason to that is supported by evidence . More stop and search needed and targeted on the types of people that the statistics show are most likely to be carrying a knife .

And what types of people would they be? Every black guy who wears a hoodie? GB athletes?

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Absolutely this - I've almost always got knives on me - In this particular rural location, it's more of a surprise if someone hasn't got a knife on them (normally mutli tool type things, often with very sharp pointed blades). While absolutely supporting an attack on knife crime, as ever in these instances you have to be careful not to criminalise people just going about their business.

The limit is three inches of cutting blade. If you can prove you need it for your line of work ie fisherman, farmer etc, then you're ok. If you were in a night club with a knife for cutting bailing twine, you're more likely to be nicked.

 

[Swansman]

Isn't great to carry a knife but I've had situations in my life when I've been very threatened and seen no other way out if I had to go somewhere at night. Would never use it unless a bunch of guys came at me with the intention to beat the shit out of me, but still think it should be illegal. 10 years would be madness though in a lot of situations. What if you're going to a barbecue at a guy who lives 500m away and he has a shite meat knife and you have a good one? Is getting caught with that knife really worthy of 10 years in prison? It just can't be that black or white - just like you can't automatically assume that someone is an arsonist because they have a lighter.

 

[lawros left foot]

I agree with all who say our current criminal justice system is shambolic.

Last year I was selected for jury service, it was at a very inconvenient time for me, right at the end of the hospitality lockdown, so I was prevented from opening my cafe the first 2 weeks when restrictions were lifted. I was selected fo Hove CC, and turned up on the Monday morning only to be sent straight home as not required, and told to report next day. To cut a long story short, this was how it continued for 2 weeks, turn up, wait between one, and six hours, get sent home. Not only me, but 19 other people as well. What with travel expenses, and compensation for my not being able to work, it cost the Government the best part of £500, and that was just me. Multiple that by the amount of jurors that can claim, and it is a huge sum.

When I asked why we were all sat in the jury room , twiddling our thumbs, I was told a lot of it was the system, a defendant turns up at court and changes his plea, a Barrister finds a reason to postpone the trial on the morning it’s meant to start, or the Prosecution has somehow messed up.
Surely, a better system could be implemented.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

What about Sikhs with criminal records? Surely there’s accommodating different cultures and then there’s…?

Do the research and come back to tell us what percentage of the Sikh population have criminal records and solely for knife crime. We await the outcome.


Or, was it just a classic case of Whataboutery?

 

[GT49er]

only need to build lots of prisons if no one is deterred. if we assume locking people up for merely carrying a weapon will be an effective deterent, should only take a few cases to be effective.

the alternative is what? few posters and dont carry knives ads, sending them on their way until they are arrested again isnt working. locking them up after injury and murder seems kinda too late.

Deterrents will work then, just like that? Good stuff! By that logic we should bring back hanging - no more murders. Job's a good 'un.

 

[darkwolf666]

50% of all magistrates courts have been closed in the last 12 years, and others are falling to bits, needing urgent repairs.

My local magistrates Court is now a Wetherspoons - some may opine there is some degree of symmetry there!

 

[Thunder Bolt]

My local magistrates Court is now a Wetherspoons - some may opine there is some degree of symmetry there!

Good one. I wonder what happened to all the profits from the Crown property that was sold, including many police stations, and fire stations.

 

[mikeyjh]

The limit is three inches of cutting blade. If you can prove you need it for your line of work ie fisherman, farmer etc, then you're ok. If you were in a night club with a knife for cutting bailing twine, you're more likely to be nicked.

Yeah, I know, I was just responding to earlier comments. It's not as simple as just jail everyone with a knife (as, of course, you know).