Is it possible for a military coalition to defeat Isis.

[wellquickwoody]

Bang on, all these right wing biggots calling for us to deport immigrants, close the borders and stop building mosques don't seem to realise our government are in bed with the main funders of ISIS. Want someone to blame? Look no further than our government who aren't prepared to cut ties with these countries and keep selling them billions of £s worth of arms.

Right wing bigots.

You really are a stupid little man are you not? Because someone has a different viewpoint to yours, you resort to name calling, not anything unique, just the names that are used by countless others and that you think will make you part of the right on gang.

Perhaps you think we should open up the border at Calais and let all the peaceful, law abiding, hard done by economic migrants (sorry, asylum seekers) in? You know, the ones with Syrian passports, first registered in Europe on a Greek isle about a month ago? Perhaps the mealey mouthed liberals should have to explain to the rest of Europe why we should continue to allow thousands of people from who knows where to continue to arrive on our shores while we give them charity as a minority of them attack our values, society and people?

Worst of all are the celebrity, holier than thou toxxers, safe in their gated homes with no fear of poverty who continue to spout that the uneducated hoi poloi should not be so xenophobic and blinkered in their views.

 

[Soulman]

Until the religion, or parts that are followed by these killers, moves out of the century it is stuck in, peace will be a long way off.

 

[Uncle C]

I hold some hope that in WW2, Japan had suicide bombers and committed similar atrocities to ISIS.

 

[GT49er]

Right wing bigots.

You really are a stupid little man are you not? Because someone has a different viewpoint to yours, you resort to name calling, not anything unique, just the names that are used by countless others and that you think will make you part of the right on gang.

Perhaps you think we should open up the border at Calais and let all the peaceful, law abiding, hard done by economic migrants (sorry, asylum seekers) in? You know, the ones with Syrian passports, first registered in Europe on a Greek isle about a month ago? Perhaps the mealey mouthed liberals should have to explain to the rest of Europe why we should continue to allow thousands of people from who knows where to continue to arrive on our shores while we give them charity as a minority of them attack our values, society and people?

Worst of all are the celebrity, holier than thou toxxers, safe in their gated homes with no fear of poverty who continue to spout that the uneducated hoi poloi should not be so xenophobic and blinkered in their views.

It's a shame that the world has now come to this......but as much as it goes against the grain to say this, I agree.

 

[spring hall convert]

Right wing bigots.

You really are a stupid little man are you not? Because someone has a different viewpoint to yours, you resort to name calling, not anything unique, just the names that are used by countless others and that you think will make you part of the right on gang.

Perhaps you think we should open up the border at Calais and let all the peaceful, law abiding, hard done by economic migrants (sorry, asylum seekers) in? You know, the ones with Syrian passports, first registered in Europe on a Greek isle about a month ago? Perhaps the mealey mouthed liberals should have to explain to the rest of Europe why we should continue to allow thousands of people from who knows where to continue to arrive on our shores while we give them charity as a minority of them attack our values, society and people?

Worst of all are the celebrity, holier than thou toxxers, safe in their gated homes with no fear of poverty who continue to spout that the uneducated hoi poloi should not be so xenophobic and blinkered in their views.

I wouldn't have chosen the language he used but his point is right. To defeat IS we have to stop it's funding and stop the exporting of wahhabism from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, countries we consider to be allies. Indiscriminately bombing Syria and Iraq or fighting IS on the ground only serves to make arms manufacturers happy and put innocent people of all faiths in body bags.

IS is a symptom not the cause.

I'm not sure sure where immigration come into this thread, which was about defeating IS but to pretend that no terrorists have pretended to be refugees is ridiculous. However, this murdering death cult are the people that the refugees are fleeing from.

 

[Hampster Gull]

ISIS may well diminish through attrtition etc. Bit like al Qaeda. But something else wil take their place. The world is smaller now, the ability to operate loose affiliations / networks to disrupt is great. Its the new norm.

 

[Seasidesage]

I think the only answer now is to militarily defeat ISIS which means troops on the ground in both Iraq and Syria. That is a frightening prospect and will no doubt result in a lot of causalities but these lunatics are going to keep doing these things until they are destroyed as an organisation. This is the only long term answer to both the refugee crisis and the ISIS attacks, there is no negotiating with these people and Assad or the Free Syrians / Iraqi army cannot defeat them on their own.

Nice one Tony you really opened Pandora's box here.

 

[Mo Gosfield]

Until the religion, or parts that are followed by these killers, moves out of the century it is stuck in, peace will be a long way off.

Quite.
Its no good Muslims burying their heads in the sand and saying these people do not represent them. They are the radical arm of a religion that shows an alarming intolerance to other beliefs. They have to be pursued and destroyed, for years and years. They have to be treated like others, in the past, that have had a blind belief and no value for life. These people will strive to bring instability to the world. They have to suffer obliteration akin to 1945. We have to shock them to the core, men, women and children. They have to be put on the defensive. The civilised world has to join forces to rid us of these sub-humans.

 

[GT49er]

I hold some hope that in WW2, Japan had suicide bombers and committed similar atrocities to ISIS.

.....and we nuked them. Problem was solved.

 

[Yoda]

I think the only answer now is to militarily defeat ISIS which means troops on the ground in both Iraq and Syria.

But, there-in lye's the problem. It's not just ISIS in Iraq and Syria that need to be targeted. What about ISIL in Libya, Egypt & Afghanistan? Boko Haram in Nigeria? Al-Shabaab in Eastern Africa (who struck again in Kenya today)? I've not included the Taliban as, even though they are fighting the free world, they are also fighting ISIS in Afghanistan.

 

[symyjym]

or it might be bollocks. none of those states are supporting ISIL. in reality they see them as very dangerous threat to their own futures, especially Saudi. private individuals might be involved in aiding the ISIL economy, but to say thats Turkey, Saudi etc would be like saying the US supported IRA because some fundraising occured in Boston. (i'll probably find that some do believe the US supported IRA...).

Maybe not directly but they are backing Al-Nusra and Sunni Syrian rebel groups. All of them change sides on a regular basis and ISIS have ended up with enough weapons to fight in Syria for the next 2 years.

This is interesting:

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ke-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html

 

[spring hall convert]

Quite.
Its no good Muslims burying their heads in the sand and saying these people do not represent them. They are the radical arm of a religion that shows an alarming intolerance to other beliefs. They have to be pursued and destroyed, for years and years. They have to be treated like others, in the past, that have had a blind belief and no value for life. These people will strive to bring instability to the world. They have to suffer obliteration akin to 1945. We have to shock them to the core, men, women and children. They have to be put on the defensive. The civilised world has to join forces to rid us of these sub-humans.

It's not just other religions that they have a radical intolerance for. Wahhabists consider other muslims to be apostate.

I'm not sure I understand what you are proposing. Care to be more specific?

 

[Seasidesage]

But, there-in lye's the problem. It's not just ISIS in Iraq and Syria that need to be targeted. What about ISIL in Libya, Egypt & Afghanistan? Boko Haram in Nigeria? Al-Shabaab in Eastern Africa (who struck again in Kenya today)? I've not included the Taliban as, even though they are fighting the free world, they are also fighting ISIS in Afghanistan.

Agree totally but we need to at the very least disrupt their ability to strike outside of the own locality, the only way I can see to do that is strike at least at the centre of their operations. There is no discussions that can be had with these people, no negotiations that can resolve this, no peace treaty that can be made, it's us or them. If we leave it much longer this will truly become a religious war with all the horrifying implications that has at home and abroad. These attacks are intended to provoke a wider reaction against Muslims and the subsequent counter reaction against us, and each time one of these attacks is successful it brings that possibility closer IMO.

 

[beorhthelm]

I would call it tacit support. Currently IS benefits the Gulf States, they have no stake in stopping them.

Maybe not directly but they are backing Al-Nusra and Sunni Syrian rebel groups. All of them change sides on a regular basis and ISIS have ended up with enough weapons to fight in Syria for the next 2 years.

ISIL dont really care that much about the West. we are just a recruiting ground for daft but energised jihadis, hopefully with some money. they want an Islamic caphilate, an empire, after Syria and Iraq they will turn their attention on the other muslim states next, notably Saudi which has fertile territory from fostering similar hard islamic principles, and the location of Mecca. while they (Sunni states) will happily support anti-Assad groups, they do not do so to assist ISIL. the stories that subgroups within that conflict "switch sides" in and out, tells us much about the fractured nature of ISIL, its not a entirely cohesive group and not about to lauch a massive campaign to the North West. if they have an ounce of strategic sense they'll knowing going against Turkey will invoke NATO and they will be squashed. so they are going to steer south and east if they are ever to succeed.

 

[Surrey Phil]

As a start I'd tell Syrians they have 7 days to get the hell out before bombing the living daylights out of the place!!!!

 

[spring hall convert]

ISIL dont really care that much about the West. we are just a recruiting ground for daft but energised jihadis, hopefully with some money. they want an Islamic caphilate, an empire, after Syria and Iraq they will turn their attention on the other muslim states next, notably Saudi which has fertile territory from fostering similar hard islamic principles, and the location of Mecca. while they (Sunni states) will happily support anti-Assad groups, they do not do so to assist ISIL. the stories that subgroups within that conflict "switch sides" in and out, tells us much about the fractured nature of ISIL, its not a entirely cohesive group and not about to lauch a massive campaign to the North West. if they have an ounce of strategic sense they'll knowing going against Turkey will invoke NATO and they will be squashed. so they are going to steer south and east if they are ever to succeed.

I'd be willing to be a pound to a penny that they go nowhere near Saudi.

I agree with you on what you say about the West. The passport found was an interesting development in yesterday's attack. Clearly it was meant to be found. I'd suggest that IS can't stand the thought of the non-Wahhabists fleeing to Europe for better lives rather than be slaughtered as apostate, they want the borders closed and I suspect, they might get their wish.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

I wouldn't have chosen the language he used but his point is right.

Not language I usually use either to be honest. The post was written in a rush and it's the first thing that sprung to mind. The main point of the post was people blaming immigrants when in reality our government is the biggest influence.

 

[pastafarian]

I wouldn't have chosen the language he used but his point is right. To defeat IS we have to stop it's funding and stop the exporting of wahhabism from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, countries we consider to be allies. Indiscriminately bombing Syria and Iraq or fighting IS on the ground only serves to make arms manufacturers happy and put innocent people of all faiths in body bags.

IS is a symptom not the cause.

I'm not sure sure where immigration come into this thread, which was about defeating IS but to pretend that no terrorists have pretended to be refugees is ridiculous. However, this murdering death cult are the people that the refugees are fleeing from.

I dont think that is the correct word to be using
not going to disagree that there are indeed mistakes and accidents but i dont think the coalition bombs Syria or Iraq indiscriminately(given its meaning)

i read somewhere that of all the coalition bombing sorties undertaken maybe only 1/5th result,(after weighing up all the final options presented,) in releasing any sort of firepower

 

[grawhite]

The easiest way, not saying it is the correct way. The U.S. still have low yeald atom bombs, 25 kt, the fallout would be minimum, but the explosion and shock wave and severe heat blast would wipe out the entire IS strong hold once and for all.

 

[GingerBeerMan]

Lockheed Martin share price since 2012 is looking tasty - almost a 300% increase since the Syrian civil war really got going (currently at 219, the graph is a bit old). The US government spent $13bn in 2014 on Lockheed Martin contracts and it's hardly a leap to think the people in the upper echelons of political power in America have LM shares. They are literally syphoning taxpayers money into military contracts and are able to profit from any investments they have, creating economic prosperity as well as personal wealth. There isn't really an incentive for America to wipe out ISIS (thus bringing some stability to Syria). Perhaps this was obvious when America criticised Russia for attacking the 'moderate rebels', a group which has done their share of raping and pillaging too.