[Albion] Is Graham Potter overrated as a Premier League manager?

[The Clamp]

I think he’s doing an unsurprising job of it all given what he’s got to work with. Personally, I think we’ve done well to stay up for so long. We could be yo-yo’ing up and down like Norwich.
He’s the latest in a long line who will just about keep us up before departing.
We are a stepping stone club for many managers.

 

[Swansman]

Might as well not bother with a coach at all eh, just let them pick the team among themselves and run around a bit like we all used to down the park after school?

Sorry, this is a spurious argument Swanny. Pep takes very good, very expensive players and improves them a whole lot, just as GP takes slightly less good and far less expensive players and does his best with them. But no one is pretending that anyone's dear old mum will help Man City win a game against a Klopp led Liverpool in a one off game.

The same poor argument has been made on the F1 thread more than once. "Lewis Hamilton only wins because he had the faster car". No. Lewis spent the vast majority of his career making that car the best.

In any case, no one on here is suggesting we should be the next Liverpool or Man City. Just that we shouldn't lose 3-0 at home to Burnley.

Well, if its all about the manager like a lot seem to think, you might as well not bother having a squad at all. Just have two managers play poker dice or do armwrestling.

 

[Weststander]

Good article by 4-4-2 standards. Definitely covers some themes from here.

What I've been saying for what feels like forever:

"Now they are 13th and could conceivably be 15th by the time they face Southampton on 24 April. Which, as they have finished 15th and 16th in two previous campaigns under Potter, scarcely screams progress."

And what I've repeatedly mentioned along with many, many others this season:

"But he is far better at drawing games than winning them. Potter could secure a rare hat-trick by sharing the points the most times in three successive seasons but his Premier League win percentage stands at just 23.5."

But, to be fair, [MENTION=6886]Bozza[/MENTION] 's "return to the mean":

"There are several factors worth considering. Losing a mere four in 24 felt artificially good; perhaps it was inevitable some setbacks would follow."

And some of Swanny and Icy's positives:

"Potter’s prowess is apparent in other respects. He improves players. Brighton banked £50 million for Ben White in part due to his coaching. Without it, perhaps Dan Burn would not have been priced at £13 million."

"There is a case for arguing that results are an inevitable consequence of the process and much Potter does is evidently admirable"

All of this together is why the Potter threads on here are so divisive. As a results-first fan who wants to see us perform and score in home games I do believe he is vastly overrated. But you could equally take the last two quotes above and make a case for him moving on to a better club when he eventually leaves.

 

[Stat Brother]

Over rated as a Potter let alone a Premier League manager.

 

[Dorset Seagull]

I think without the centre back situation we would still be around 10th so think he is a better manager than our current league position would suggest

 

[Icy Gull]

From my perspective….look at the players he has had available recently and the number who are out of form, he is clearly not the Messiah which you’d have to be to expect to be winning games with them.

I totally get those who have lost patience though, it’s been an incredibly frustrating run.

I expect plenty think someone else could do better, I think you may get the chance to find out

 

[Weststander]

Would Klopp or Pep get this Brighton team playing better - probably, but not much better. Think GP is doing a good job with the players he has, we can all see what he is trying to do, the problem comes when it doesn't work.

Klopp led tiny Mainz to the Bundesliga, then 11th, 11th and a UEFA cup spot. Despite having by far the smallest budget. He was only 33. Then the inevitable relegation.

 

[Stat Brother]

[MENTION=616]Guinness Boy[/MENTION] nails it.

There's a lot to like about our Graham.

But by Christ he needs to sort out some of his very obvious failings sooner rather than later.

 

[chaileyjem]

Bilic, Bielsa, Chris Wilder, Scott Parker, Farke, Watford's last 100 managers, Lampard given the way things are going.
None have managed what Potter has done - keep their club in the premier league for two , probably three seasons and keep their jobs.
Not good enough for many on these types of threads but a feat nonetheless.

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

I think he’s doing an unsurprising job of it all given what he’s got to work with. Personally, I think we’ve done well to stay up for so long. We could be yo-yo’ing up and down like Norwich.
He’s the latest in a long line who will just about keep us up before departing.
We are a stepping stone club for many managers.

Well you say that, as do many others, but who was the last Albion manager to actually step up to a 'bigger' club? Struggling to think of a single one since maybe Micky Adams #1, and even that was a pretty short-lived disaster

 

[Icy Gull]

Well you say that, as do many others, but who was the last Albion manager to actually step up to a 'bigger' club? Struggling to think of a single one since maybe Micky Adams #1, and even that was pretty short-lived disaster

Steve Coppell

 

[portslade seagull]

No. He could do with a few genuine premier league standard players, though.

Agree, this is how we need to upgrade. GP hasn't really been that well supported with bringing in 1st team ready players. The far greater percentage have been bought as gems for the future when they are needed in the here and now

 

[Oscar]

Tomorrow will be a good test of his skills as a manager. He's had a good break on the training ground with at least half the squad to work on issues. Yesterday, he said it had been the best international break he had experienced in terms of working on tactics etc. He also suggested specific work had been done on attacking apsects of play.

Norwich at home would seem to be the ideal opportunity to see the proceeds of that work, the positivity Potter has described and the form many of our internationals showed while away.

 

[Icy Gull]

Agree, this is how we need to upgrade. GP hasn't really been that well supported with bringing in 1st team ready players. The far greater percentage have been bought as gems for the future when they are needed in the here and now

Well quite, but it won’t be a popular opinion on here.

 

[Weststander]

They're all turning now...

Graham Potter is the best English manager, according to Pep Guardiola. He has “all you need” to become an elite manager, said Jurgen Klopp, tipping him for a top job. They are historic compliments, but it is safe to say Potter’s fan club retains some very distinguished members.​

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/is-graham-potter-overrated-as-a-premier-league-manager

Genuinely, nice work. I like this thread.

 

[The Clamp]

Well you say that, as do many others, but who was the last Albion manager to actually step up to a 'bigger' club? Struggling to think of a single one since maybe Micky Adams #1, and even that was a pretty short-lived disaster

It’s a good point. I guess I mean we are seen as a “suck it and see”club maybe. As in if they get us further up the table they might stick around, if not they’ll jump ship.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

The spine of the team has been weakened by Webster’s absence and the lack of a premier league centre forward. So Potter is on a hiding to nothing. Bissouma is arguably the best midfielder and who knows where his head is at the moment. Our goalie has the occasional ‘mare. None of this is Potter’s fault. Most of the signings seem to be investments in the future, whether for development and sale, or perhaps getting in the first team to make up the numbers.
Only the rich will survive as they can afford the decent forwards required for success and build their teams and play around them.
I think we’ll just get the pretty football and survive. That is why for clubs like Norwich the yo-yo effect is quite attractive.

 

[chaileyjem]

GP hasn't really been that well supported with bringing in 1st team ready players. The far greater percentage have been bought as gems for the future when they are needed in the here and now

Maybe he should have a few better players or diffrent players but is this true ? In the last three seasons under Potter - Welbeck, Mwepu, Cucurella, Webster, Maupay, Lallana, Veltman, Trossard, White (back from a loan) are all summer signings that have gone straight into the team.

 

[chaileyjem]

Well you say that, as do many others, but who was the last Albion manager to actually step up to a 'bigger' club? Struggling to think of a single one since maybe Micky Adams #1, and even that was a pretty short-lived disaster

Gus Poyet was sacked first of course but in his next job he went to Premier League Sunderland and saved them from relegation for one season at least.

Arguably Oscar Garcia has gone on to manage "bigger clubs" or at a higher level since leaving the Albion.

 

[Icy Gull]

Maybe he should have a few better players or diffrent players but is this true ? In the last three seasons under Potter - Welbeck, Mwepu, Cucurella, Webster, Maupay, Lallana, Veltman, Trossard, White (back from a loan) are all summer signings that have gone straight into the team.

Two injury plagued players with PL experience, one who came from a good Dutch side, the rest were gambles (which mostly worked), However how many others were bought “for the future”. I don’t know but I reckon far more that weren’t remotely PL ready than those you list