[Football] Is fan “bellendery” inevitable?

[Simster]

There are no excuses for his behaviour. Wouldn’t surprise me if he’s acted just as cowardly before, probably outside a pub.

No argument from me, no excuses at all. It just doesn't come as a surprise at least one moron acts like that, given the opposition.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

When we lost at Derby (and it was 6-1 in aggregate if memory serves), I worried for the safety of our players. Leo Ulloa came over to us, applauding and effectively saying goodbye, and I saw him being assaulted by at least two Derby supporters.

That was years ago. Something like this was always going to happen sooner or later. Now that it has, expect pitch invasions to be met with major sanctions from the powers that be.

 

[Bry Nylon]

When we lost at Derby (and it was 6-1 in aggregate if memory serves), I worried for the safety of our players. Leo Ulloa came over to us, applauding and effectively saying goodbye, and I saw him being assaulted by at least two Derby supporters.

That was years ago. Something like this was always going to happen sooner or later. Now that it has, expect pitch invasions to be met with major sanctions from the powers that be.

Just lately it seems people minded to behave like this feel they can do it with relative impunity as rather than preventing potential flashpoints, it seems the police prefer to sit in a remote location gathering CCTV evidence and then trying to find the perpetrators retrospectively. What happened at Wembley before the Euros final was a classic example. Anyone who knows anything about football crowds could have predicted exactly what happened given the event, location, an 8pm kick off and what had happened at the quarter and semi finals.

Allowing criminality / mob rule to occur and then seeking down those responsible feels like reverse engineering the problem. Just put enough police in the right place at the right time and it will deter most of the idiots and those that it doesn't can be arrested before they hurt innocent people.

It was completely laughable how the Met and Wembley Stadium Ltd sat in front of a Select Committee in the aftermath the England vs Italy cluster****, wringing their hands and saying, "blimey. Didn't realise that would happen."

So to answer the question, yes depressingly I suppose bellendery is inevitable, if those empowered to prevent it choose not to do so / take a back seat. However, the responsibility for anti-social behaviour must always lie squarely with those committing it. We all have a choice how we behave - whether there are police around or not.

 

[Weststander]

at some point the guy has to take responsibility for his actions. There is an assumption he was either drunk or drugged or both he might not have been, if he were he made a choice to take them....

He won’t, he’s too thick.

Hopefully the courts will for him.

 

[Driver8]

McBurnie wasn’t taking any shit.

https://twitter.com/brokenkingmusic/status/1526940860742606851?s=21&t=puD9GZfGnFGFGbiAGZJLGw

 

[WhingForPresident]

McBurnie wasn’t taking any shit.

https://twitter.com/brokenkingmusic/status/1526940860742606851?s=21&t=puD9GZfGnFGFGbiAGZJLGw

The bloke's a moronic thug and a shit footballer. Scottish third division by the time he is 30.

 

[SAC]

McBurnie wasn’t taking any shit.

https://twitter.com/brokenkingmusic/status/1526940860742606851?s=21&t=puD9GZfGnFGFGbiAGZJLGw

It's difficult to be certain but it doesn't look good. I suspect that there is enough doubt for him to be able to get away with it, despite his history.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

[tweet]1526998731631038467[/tweet]

 

[Thunder Bolt]

It's difficult to be certain but it doesn't look good. I suspect that there is enough doubt for him to be able to get away with it, despite his history.

Some are saying he was pushed from behind, and hopped to try to avoid the bloke on the ground.

 

[Titanic]

What a complete arse. Jail time for that.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61505835

A fan has been jailed after running on to a pitch and headbutting a footballer at the end of Nottingham Forest's play-off match with Sheffield United.

Billy Sharp, Sheffield United's captain, was attacked after his side lost to Forest on penalties.

Sharp was knocked to the ground and required four stitches to his lip.

Forest season ticket holder Robert Biggs, 30, pleaded guilty to assault occasioning actual bodily harm and was jailed for 24 weeks.

At Nottingham Magistrates' Court on Thursday, Biggs, from Ilkeston, Derbyshire, was ordered to pay £500 compensation to Sharp, and £128 in court costs.

He was also given a two-year football banning order.

 

[SAC]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61505835

A fan has been jailed after running on to a pitch and headbutting a footballer at the end of Nottingham Forest's play-off match with Sheffield United.

Billy Sharp, Sheffield United's captain, was attacked after his side lost to Forest on penalties.

Sharp was knocked to the ground and required four stitches to his lip.

Forest season ticket holder Robert Biggs, 30, pleaded guilty to assault occasioning actual bodily harm and was jailed for 24 weeks.

At Nottingham Magistrates' Court on Thursday, Biggs, from Ilkeston, Derbyshire, was ordered to pay £500 compensation to Sharp, and £128 in court costs.

He was also given a two-year football banning order.

Wow, that was quick. Good on him for taking responsibility for his actions.

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61505835

A fan has been jailed after running on to a pitch and headbutting a footballer at the end of Nottingham Forest's play-off match with Sheffield United.

Billy Sharp, Sheffield United's captain, was attacked after his side lost to Forest on penalties.

Sharp was knocked to the ground and required four stitches to his lip.

Forest season ticket holder Robert Biggs, 30, pleaded guilty to assault occasioning actual bodily harm and was jailed for 24 weeks.

At Nottingham Magistrates' Court on Thursday, Biggs, from Ilkeston, Derbyshire, was ordered to pay £500 compensation to Sharp, and £128 in court costs.

He was also given a two-year football banning order.

Good.

Any relation to Ronnie, I wonder?

Edit: BBC site says a ten year football banning order, not two.

Edit Edit: and the consequence may be catestrophic.

"The judge had been urged to hand down a suspended sentence on Biggs, who claimed he and his girlfriend would not be able to keep up monthly mortgage repayments if he was jailed.

But the judge said: "Given the gravity of this offence, where thousands were present to witness it, there has to be an element of deterrence.""

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

Just lately it seems people minded to behave like this feel they can do it with relative impunity as rather than preventing potential flashpoints, it seems the police prefer to sit in a remote location gathering CCTV evidence and then trying to find the perpetrators retrospectively. What happened at Wembley before the Euros final was a classic example. Anyone who knows anything about football crowds could have predicted exactly what happened given the event, location, an 8pm kick off and what had happened at the quarter and semi finals.

Allowing criminality / mob rule to occur and then seeking down those responsible feels like reverse engineering the problem. Just put enough police in the right place at the right time and it will deter most of the idiots and those that it doesn't can be arrested before they hurt innocent people.

It was completely laughable how the Met and Wembley Stadium Ltd sat in front of a Select Committee in the aftermath the England vs Italy cluster****, wringing their hands and saying, "blimey. Didn't realise that would happen."

So to answer the question, yes depressingly I suppose bellendery is inevitable, if those empowered to prevent it choose not to do so / take a back seat. However, the responsibility for anti-social behaviour must always lie squarely with those committing it. We all have a choice how we behave - whether there are police around or not.

Spot on.

Human beings like to push the boat out. We all vary in terms of which boat and how far, but when there are no deterrants and a high chance of getting away with something, if that thing happens to be your boat then you may well set sail.

The only way to turn a tide is preventive intervention so, as you say, this will include putting enough police in the right place at the right time. Unlike those causing trouble at, say, a political protest, an emboldened mob of football 'lads' are not looking to further a cause by getting arrested, so a show of police force (gedditt??) is the best solution.

I can only imagine what would happen on the UK's roads if the gatsos were taken down and police opted to just review camera footage of pile-ups for prosecuting dangerous drivers after the fact (presumably via seance)

 

[darkwolf666]

Spot on.

Human beings like to push the boat out. We all vary in terms of which boat and how far, but when there are no deterrants and a high chance of getting away with something, if that thing happens to be your boat then you may well set sail.

The only way to turn a tide is preventive intervention so, as you say, this will include putting enough police in the right place at the right time. Unlike those causing trouble at, say, a political protest, an emboldened mob of football 'lads' are not looking to further a cause by getting arrested, so a show of police force (gedditt??) is the best solution.

I can only imagine what would happen on the UK's roads if the gatsos were taken down and police opted to just review camera footage of pile-ups for prosecuting dangerous drivers after the fact (presumably via seance)

Ah, but then you would have people, amongst the many millions who have no interest in football (weirdos), saying why are all those police there, shouldn't they be out catching criminals and stopping real crimes?

Definitely a case of damned if you don't damned if you do!

 

[Commander]

Spot on.

Human beings like to push the boat out. We all vary in terms of which boat and how far, but when there are no deterrants and a high chance of getting away with something, if that thing happens to be your boat then you may well set sail.

The only way to turn a tide is preventive intervention so, as you say, this will include putting enough police in the right place at the right time. Unlike those causing trouble at, say, a political protest, an emboldened mob of football 'lads' are not looking to further a cause by getting arrested, so a show of police force (gedditt??) is the best solution.

I can only imagine what would happen on the UK's roads if the gatsos were taken down and police opted to just review camera footage of pile-ups for prosecuting dangerous drivers after the fact (presumably via seance)

It's a tough one. Until fairly recently the British police's methods of dealing with minor football trouble by largely letting it happen and then giving someone a knock on the door at 5am on a Tuesday morning has worked very well. Seeing the way some foreign police forces have dealt with some idiot chucking a bottle by steaming in with batons to arrest him, subsequently causing a load more trouble by doing it, has looked primitive and ridiculous at recent international tournaments. It's easy to now suddenly say that the British police's methods are wrong, based on a few incidents, when they have worked fairly well for years.

The problem seems to be that, for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to think they are untouchable these days, and can do whatever they want and get away with it. I'm sure the guy that headbutted Billy Sharp is full of remorse and regret now, but did he really think he was going to get away with it at the time, or did he just not think about it? It would be different if Sharp had scored in the last minute and ran over to the Forest fans goading them, and the guy had just lost it and stepped over the hoardings an nutted him. While completely inexcusable, he could claim he just lost his temper in the heat of the moment, I suppose. But there must have been a good 30 second gap between the last penalty, getting on to the pitch, seeking out Sharp and running towards him and doing it. So he had plenty of time to rethink his actions, but didn't. Which all points to this constant problem of people doing too much gear at football.

I see Boris has just pledged to crack down on 'middle class coke heads' at football. Presumably this will be the same for the middle class coke heads at the Rugga?

 

[keaton]

It's a tough one. Until fairly recently the British police's methods of dealing with minor football trouble by largely letting it happen and then giving someone a knock on the door at 5am on a Tuesday morning has worked very well. Seeing the way some foreign police forces have dealt with some idiot chucking a bottle by steaming in with batons to arrest him, subsequently causing a load more trouble by doing it, has looked primitive and ridiculous at recent international tournaments. It's easy to now suddenly say that the British police's methods are wrong, based on a few incidents, when they have worked fairly well for years.

The problem seems to be that, for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to think they are untouchable these days, and can do whatever they want and get away with it. I'm sure the guy that headbutted Billy Sharp is full of remorse and regret now, but did he really think he was going to get away with it at the time, or did he just not think about it? It would be different if Sharp had scored in the last minute and ran over to the Forest fans goading them, and the guy had just lost it and stepped over the hoardings an nutted him. While completely inexcusable, he could claim he just lost his temper in the heat of the moment, I suppose. But there must have been a good 30 second gap between the last penalty, getting on to the pitch, seeking out Sharp and running towards him and doing it. So he had plenty of time to rethink his actions, but didn't. Which all points to this constant problem of people doing too much gear at football.

I see Boris has just pledged to crack down on 'middle class coke heads' at football. Presumably this will be the same for the middle class coke heads at the Rugga?

Is that an issue though? I've never seen any obvious use of coke at rugby or cricket, or bad behaviour seemingly caused by it. Its pretty widespread and obvious at professional football matches

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

It's a tough one. Until fairly recently the British police's methods of dealing with minor football trouble by largely letting it happen and then giving someone a knock on the door at 5am on a Tuesday morning has worked very well. Seeing the way some foreign police forces have dealt with some idiot chucking a bottle by steaming in with batons to arrest him, subsequently causing a load more trouble by doing it, has looked primitive and ridiculous at recent international tournaments. It's easy to now suddenly say that the British police's methods are wrong, based on a few incidents, when they have worked fairly well for years.

The problem seems to be that, for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to think they are untouchable these days, and can do whatever they want and get away with it. I'm sure the guy that headbutted Billy Sharp is full of remorse and regret now, but did he really think he was going to get away with it at the time, or did he just not think about it? It would be different if Sharp had scored in the last minute and ran over to the Forest fans goading them, and the guy had just lost it and stepped over the hoardings an nutted him. While completely inexcusable, he could claim he just lost his temper in the heat of the moment, I suppose. But there must have been a good 30 second gap between the last penalty, getting on to the pitch, seeking out Sharp and running towards him and doing it. So he had plenty of time to rethink his actions, but didn't. Which all points to this constant problem of people doing too much gear at football.

I see Boris has just pledged to crack down on 'middle class coke heads' at football. Presumably this will be the same for the middle class coke heads at the Rugga?

Isn't the issue though they've gone too far the other way. I have a mate who witnessed the Wembley rioting and he confirmed there was no shortage of police. They just fled to their vans. People are now aware that if in a crowd, they can commit a crime right in front of a police officer and there will likely be no attempt to arrest or prevent the crime.

I think the police have a lot to answer for in this, they are happy to arrest forcefully when it's a woman, but are no longer willing to prevent a crime when it involves confronting an aggressive group of lads . I'm not saying it's easy, but that's surely the job

 

[Harry Wilson's tackle]

It's a tough one. Until fairly recently the British police's methods of dealing with minor football trouble by largely letting it happen and then giving someone a knock on the door at 5am on a Tuesday morning has worked very well. Seeing the way some foreign police forces have dealt with some idiot chucking a bottle by steaming in with batons to arrest him, subsequently causing a load more trouble by doing it, has looked primitive and ridiculous at recent international tournaments. It's easy to now suddenly say that the British police's methods are wrong, based on a few incidents, when they have worked fairly well for years.

The problem seems to be that, for whatever reason, a lot of people seem to think they are untouchable these days, and can do whatever they want and get away with it. I'm sure the guy that headbutted Billy Sharp is full of remorse and regret now, but did he really think he was going to get away with it at the time, or did he just not think about it? It would be different if Sharp had scored in the last minute and ran over to the Forest fans goading them, and the guy had just lost it and stepped over the hoardings an nutted him. While completely inexcusable, he could claim he just lost his temper in the heat of the moment, I suppose. But there must have been a good 30 second gap between the last penalty, getting on to the pitch, seeking out Sharp and running towards him and doing it. So he had plenty of time to rethink his actions, but didn't. Which all points to this constant problem of people doing too much gear at football.

I see Boris has just pledged to crack down on 'middle class coke heads' at football. Presumably this will be the same for the middle class coke heads at the Rugga?

You have pretty much confirmed what I said but in a different way. You are saying that behaviour has changed recently, and I would agree with that and add that the OB sitting back and popping round to make an arrest a couple of days later will therefore not work so well, now. Thus I feel we have no option other than to crank things up a bit.

Of course I accept that the OB steaming into a crowd that is not used to being steamed into after someone throws something is unhelpful, but this is always a risk when travelling abroad. The locals wouldn't chuck the bottle because they already know what to expect.

We shall never know the reason for the current apparent sense of emboldenment by a minority of nobbers, as we have no pair matched control group. My guess is that some people (a tiny minority) have simply forgotten where the boundaries are because they have been away from the fray for too long (Covid). We have had people at football openly on the coke for years (visible when Millwall made it to the FA cup final in 2004), too.

Anyway - we all know the very best solution:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04clpd7h0b0

 

[pasty]

Drug-related offences in football could mean five-year bans

 

[BBassic]

Good.

Any relation to Ronnie, I wonder?

Edit: BBC site says a ten year football banning order, not two.

Edit Edit: and the consequence may be catestrophic.

"The judge had been urged to hand down a suspended sentence on Biggs, who claimed he and his girlfriend would not be able to keep up monthly mortgage repayments if he was jailed.

But the judge said: "Given the gravity of this offence, where thousands were present to witness it, there has to be an element of deterrence.""

Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my actions! Fancy seeing you here!