[News] Is donating 8% of your wealth when you’ve still got $120bn left really that generous?

[Triggaaar]

Is donating 8% of your wealth when you’ve still got $120bn left really that generous?

Yes.

Is it? Really? Or just relatively cheap PR?

I'm sure PR is cheaper than that.

And are you sure he's never given money away before, and won't again? It's far better than many of the world's wealthiest.

 

[RossyG]

$10b is a lot to donate no matter how much money the donor has. I can think of better uses for the money than giving some of it to “climate activists” though.

Still, if he’s got this much spare change maybe Amazon can start paying more tax and treating its staff in a more humane way.

 

[RossyG]

The UK has also arrived at a generous tax regime for the very wealthy, but does not appear to have the same culture of philanthropy.

We certainly used to have that culture. Many Victorian entrepreneurs were great philanthropists.

Depressions, cruel death duties, and insane tax rates (“Here’s one for you, nineteen for me”) killed that off from the 1930s onwards. Alas, when the conditions changed in the 80s, that culture didn’t really return (although I’m sure there are honourable exceptions).

I don’t count the Saatchi takeover of modern art and their promotion of talentless degenerates as philanthropy. Still, this isn’t a thread about art as a cryptocurrency or money laundering.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

We certainly used to have that culture. Many Victorian entrepreneurs were great philanthropists.

Depressions, cruel death duties, and insane tax rates (“Here’s one for you, nineteen for me”) killed that off from the 1930s onwards. Alas, when the conditions changed in the 80s, that culture didn’t really return (although I’m sure there are honourable exceptions).

I don’t count the Saatchi takeover of modern art and their promotion of talentless degenerates as philanthropy. Still, this isn’t a thread about art as a cryptocurrency or money laundering.

You're right. Lever brothers (Port Sunlight), Rowntree, Cadbury etc were all philanthropists, providing housing and health care for their workers.

https://www.bgs.org.uk/resources/victorian-philanthropists-philosophers-and-activists

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Talking of generosity, Tony Bloom has spent millions (and continues to do so) providing us with a stadium and team to support. Without him, where would we be?
I wonder if anyone cares to question his generosity out of his fortune?

 

[beorhthelm]

Bit of a vipers nest this one, specifically due to Amazon's tax status in the UK. I am going to set that one aside for a minute, although I am sure someone will be along soon to put me right on this one.

i'll oblige you, Amazon dont have any special tax status in the UK, the main issue here is the sales go through thier Luxembourg subsidary. there's also the issue of how much actual profit margin they make, they built the business on very low margins.

 

[Rugrat]

The negative side is that around the World. His company has avoided tax in almost every country.

If that tax had been paid it could have been put to whatever use or services that country needed to support its population.

Instead he avoids paying those taxes. Pays to Charitable Organisations which allows his companions to pay even less tax.

He donated to whatever cause suits his own end.

And what cause has the "biggest momentum " amongst younger consumers.? Climate Change of course. So he has chosen Charitable Donations which in the long run is essentially a Marketing Tool.

He should just pay his taxes and let Governments decide where those taxes should be spent

I'd argue that every well run International business is looking to keep it's tax bills to a minimum and it's the tax jurisdictions that should be coming under fire, they're the ones that provide the opportunity. I'd rather he gave $10BN to dealing with a real issue that could destroy our planet than contributing to dead duck, bottomless projects like HS2 or Trump's wall or whatever other daft use of tax payer money was being applied elsewhere.

As for a marketing tool do you really believe that was his intent? Amazon has established itself as a global leader, he ain't signing up more youngsters on the back of this. Pity he can't do something without the cynical reaction .... and yes he should be publicising it, not for his own gain (which he doesn't need) but to maybe try to start something and get some momentum. Too many have got their head up their arses and expecting others to do something

I applaud any funding towards saving our planet (if indeed it can do that) regardless of where it comes from

 

[CheeseRolls]

i'll oblige you, Amazon dont have any special tax status in the UK, the main issue here is the sales go through thier Luxembourg subsidary. there's also the issue of how much actual profit margin they make, they built the business on very low margins.

I have no intention of defending Amazon's taxation policy, which is morally reprehensible. They are able to operate in this fashion, due to legal loopholes, where International legislation and the will to make changes are sorely lagging behind the need for reform. Amazon can justifiably argue they need to be competitive.

They built the business on sustaining huge losses, whilst retail growth was the main driver. Their retail business is now dwarfed by the cloud hosting business, which does not operate on such tight margins.

 

[Weststander]

Indeed. Fair play to him, but he CAN afford it - we can't. And as you say having enough money to provide for your family and buy all the material comforts you could possibly want is one thing. Anything above that and 'money' just becomes an abstract concept.

People could do worse than reach for their Bibles and read either Mark 12:41-44, or Luke 21:1-4. The story of the widow's mite.

Hallelujah to that.

 

[GT49er]

Money doesn't = happiness. You don't need money or things to be happy, you need friends and family. The only time money or material things cause a problem is when you start stressing about what other people have got.

No, the only time money or material things cause a problem is when you haven't got enough to make ends meet.

 

[Nitram]

Deeds rather than talk, sounds pretty impressive to me.

 

[blue-shifted]

I agree with all of those saying the mega rich shouldn't just be able to avoid taxes then decide which cause their money goes to.

The millionaires, the accountants, the governments that refuse to legislate are all as bad as each other.

 

[lost in london]

It's the second largest charitable gift ever so not to be sniffed at. He also does other stuff as well, his Day One Fund gave out a lot last year:

2019 Day 1 Families Fund Awardees
Bethany House Services, Cincinnati, OH • $1.25 million
Catholic Charities Eastern Washington, Spokane, WA • $5 million
Catholic Social Services Alaska, Anchorage, AK • $5 million
Coburn Place, Indianapolis, IN • $1.25 million
Connecticut Coalition to End Homelessness, Hartford, CT • $2.5 million
Covenant House, New York, NY • $5 million
Family Gateway, Dallas, TX • $2.75 million
FamilyAid Boston, Boston, MA • $5 million
ForKids, Norfolk, VA • $2.5 million
Goodwill Industries of Northern Michigan, Traverse City, MI • $1.25 million
Great Lakes Community Action Partnership, Fremont, OH • $1.25 million
Homeless Services Network of Central Florida, Orlando, FL • $5.25 million
HOPE Services Hawaii, Hilo, HI • $2.75 million
HopeWorks, Albuquerque, NM • $2.5 million
Interim Community Development Association, Seattle, WA • $2.5 million
Lafayette Transitional Housing Center, Lafayette, IN • $1.25 million
Mary’s Place Seattle, Seattle, WA • $5 million
MIFA, Memphis, TN • $5 million
Our Family Services, Tucson, AZ • $2.5 million
Pathways of Hope, Fullerton, CA • $2.5 million
St. Joseph Center, Venice, CA • $5 million
St. Joseph’s Villa, Richmond, VA $1.25 million
St. Stephen’s Human Services, Minneapolis, MN • $5 million
St. Vincent de Paul, Baltimore, MD • $5 million
The Road Home, Salt Lake City, UT • $5 million
The Road Home Dane County, Madison, WI • $1.25 million
The Whole Child, Whittier, CA • $5 million
UNITY Of Greater New Orleans, New Orleans, LA • $2.5 million
Upward Bound House, Santa Monica, CA • $1.25 million
Welcome House of Northern Kentucky, Covington, KY • $1.25 million
West Virginia Coalition to End Homelessness, Bridgeport, WV • $1.5 million
YWCA Columbus, Columbus, OH • $2.5 million

I am not an apologist for him, but I bet the 'challenge' with having so much money is making sure that it's spent in the most effective way. The Bill Gates documentary on Netflix is a good example of this - these super successful business people aren't just going to hand over billions to charities and walk away; their money can eradicate diseases if directed in the right way. They will want their money to deliver. They probably however also want influence.

His ex wife signed Warren Buffet's Giving Pledge as soon as she got her divorce payout, would be nice to see him doing the same.

 

[Simster]

Talking of generosity, Tony Bloom has spent millions (and continues to do so) providing us with a stadium and team to support. Without him, where would we be?
I wonder if anyone cares to question his generosity out of his fortune?

Two things:

1) has Tony Bloom paid his taxes? Only I don't think Jeff Bezos has. I think your comparison ends there. I don't see why anyone should pay much respect to someone who deliberately circumnavigates tax laws. I hate Amazon. I hate the way they pay f**k all tax here and get to use our infrastructure. F**k Amazon and f**k Bezos.

2) We're Brighton fans, our views with regard to his philanthropy are bound to be somewhat skewed. However, if you want a more realistic view then go anywhere else in the country and ask their opinion of Tony Bloom. I doubt they'd be negative at all, but at least they won't be skewed towards "gushing". And if it turns out Bloom's businesses have paid an absurdly low 2% tax on the way to making him a billionaire, you won't even have to go far beyond Brighton to get a distinctly negative opinion on the man.

To conclude, when a man with more money than he will ever be able to spend has a crisis of conscience (or a passion he can get behind) and uses a small portion of that money to pursue it, well if that person hasn't paid their taxes then don't expect me to be particularly impressed.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Two things:

1) has Tony Bloom paid his taxes? Only I don't think Jeff Bezos has. I think your comparison ends there. I don't see why anyone should pay much respect to someone who deliberately circumnavigates tax laws. I hate Amazon. I hate the way they pay f**k all tax here and get to use our infrastructure. F**k Amazon and f**k Bezos.

2) We're Brighton fans, our views with regard to his philanthropy are bound to be somewhat skewed. However, if you want a more realistic view then go anywhere else in the country and ask their opinion of Tony Bloom. I doubt they'd be negative at all, but at least they won't be skewed towards "gushing". And if it turns out Bloom's businesses have paid an absurdly low 2% tax on the way to making him a billionaire, you won't even have to go far beyond Brighton to get a distinctly negative opinion on the man.

To conclude, when a man with more money than he will ever be able to spend has a crisis of conscience (or a passion he can get behind) and uses a small portion of that money to pursue it, well if that person hasn't paid their taxes then don't expect me to be particularly impressed.

I take your point, and I'm not sure I was actually respecting Bezos.

I do think that most mega large companies will base their companies in the country where they pay the least tax, although I'm not sure they pay their tax in Luxembourg either, but that's for them to sort out.

How many of us boycott Amazon because of their tax avoidance? Is it convenient to browse for a few minutes and be able to order two or three vastly different products to be delivered to our door within a day or two? How many of us watched the Albion in December because it was on Prime? I know I do, and did, so I cannot criticise someone who provides that service.

 

[Simster]

How many of us boycott Amazon because of their tax avoidance? Is it convenient to browse for a few minutes and be able to order two or three vastly different products to be delivered to our door within a day or two? How many of us watched the Albion in December because it was on Prime? I know I do, and did, so I cannot criticise someone who provides that service.

I don't boycott Amazon because nobody else offers a service like they do. When they do, I'll move. I did, however, make sure not a single one of my kids Christmas lists (distributed to the wider family) had anything from Amazon on there. A small protest rather than a principled stance though, I agree. And yes, I too watched the Spurs game on Prime.

 

[Rugrat]

I take your point, and I'm not sure I was actually respecting Bezos.

I do think that most mega large companies will base their companies in the country where they pay the least tax, although I'm not sure they pay their tax in Luxembourg either, but that's for them to sort out.

How many of us boycott Amazon because of their tax avoidance? Is it convenient to browse for a few minutes and be able to order two or three vastly different products to be delivered to our door within a day or two? How many of us watched the Albion in December because it was on Prime? I know I do, and did, so I cannot criticise someone who provides that service.

Good points. I do actually boycott Amazon, not because of their tax strategy but because of it's impact on our high streets and the businesses it has sent to the wall. I know it doesn't help but makes me feel better. But I can separate that from this Bezos 'gesture' (and who knows if that's the end of it)

As for tax avoidance I can tell you from experience that 'every' savvy (and financially able) able individual or business is at it. There are vast numbers of offshore investments, convoluted tax mechanisms and dodgy trust funds all established and set up with the express intent of avoiding tax. The likes of Amazon/Google/Facebook etc get the press because of their size but anyone thinking it doesn't go on wholesale is naive at best.

Of course, TB doesn't look to maximise his opportunity to reduce his tax bills, perish the thought!

Must go, got the builder coming round to do a cash job

 

[Tom Hark Preston Park]

How do we square this when HSBC sack 35,000 staff because pre tax profits are down to £10.3 bn?

Yup, that's pretty vile behaviour, tho about par for the course for the ever-disgusting banking sector

 

[Creaky]

That 10 billion doubtless represents far more than 8% of liquid funds available.

It’s like saying that someone who gives 10,000 to charity is only giving 1% of their wealth away because they own a house worth a million.

 

[Billy the Fish]

However, if you want a more realistic view then go anywhere else in the country and ask their opinion of Tony Bloom. I doubt they'd be negative at all, but at least they won't be skewed towards "gushing". And if it turns out Bloom's businesses have paid an absurdly low 2% tax on the way to making him a billionaire, you won't even have to go far beyond Brighton to get a distinctly negative opinion on the man.

To conclude, when a man with more money than he will ever be able to spend has a crisis of conscience (or a passion he can get behind) and uses a small portion of that money to pursue it, well if that person hasn't paid their taxes then don't expect me to be particularly impressed.

Isn't Tony's property business based in Panama? That might give you a clue!