- Jul 10, 2003
- 27,778
Ahh but TC swap out “stupid for doing so” with “Stupid” and it sounds a whole lot different
Indeed, important difference. Not inherently stupid, just prone to doing stupid things
Off to Mill Road
[Politics] Is democracy in crisis?
- Thread starter Pavilionaire
- Start date
Got something to say or just want fewer pesky ads? Join us... 😊
Indeed, important difference. Not inherently stupid, just prone to doing stupid things
Off to Mill Road
Actually, a yougov poll shortly before the election showed that Kamala Harris's policies were more popular. Problem was people thought they were Trump's policies in many cases.
Harris vs. Trump on the issues: Whose policies do voters prefer? | YouGov
As the 2024 presidential election approaches, we take a deep dive into the policies that registered voters support, the issues they care about, and the candidates they trust to handle them.
today.yougov.com
It's almost as if people don't even know what they're voting for.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 642
People know what they are voting for … not the first time the polling has been wrongActually, a yougov poll shortly before the election showed that Kamala Harris's policies were more popular. Problem was people thought they were Trump's policies in many cases.
Harris vs. Trump on the issues: Whose policies do voters prefer? | YouGov
As the 2024 presidential election approaches, we take a deep dive into the policies that registered voters support, the issues they care about, and the candidates they trust to handle them.
It's almost as if people don't even know what they're voting for.
It’s incomprehensible in the tiny little NSC left wing bubble I know but those politicians are extremely popular in a lot of places and shocking as it may seem it’s not because everyone else is stupid
People know what they are voting for … not the first time the polling has been wrong
It’s incomprehensible in the tiny little NSC left wing bubble I know but those politicians are extremely popular in a lot of places and shocking as it may seem it’s not because everyone else is stupid
I guess you didn't take a look at the link I shared
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,222
But not because they are stupid.Actually, a yougov poll shortly before the election showed that Kamala Harris's policies were more popular. Problem was people thought they were Trump's policies in many cases.
Harris vs. Trump on the issues: Whose policies do voters prefer? | YouGov
As the 2024 presidential election approaches, we take a deep dive into the policies that registered voters support, the issues they care about, and the candidates they trust to handle them.
It's almost as if people don't even know what they're voting for.
Of course not. Most people aren't that interested in politics, especially when it comes to the detail. It's all about narrative and Trump's a great story teller.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,222
Maybe we should start voting for policies instead of candidates. That would circumvent the cult of personality we have seen over the last few years. We would need to make sure that the parties followed through on their promises.Actually, a yougov poll shortly before the election showed that Kamala Harris's policies were more popular. Problem was people thought they were Trump's policies in many cases.
Harris vs. Trump on the issues: Whose policies do voters prefer? | YouGov
As the 2024 presidential election approaches, we take a deep dive into the policies that registered voters support, the issues they care about, and the candidates they trust to handle them.
It's almost as if people don't even know what they're voting for.
BadFish
Huge Member
- Oct 19, 2003
- 18,222
Its nothing to do with intelligence of course and you are quite right. However personally I think it is folly to cast one's vote based on story telling and personality (especially as, with Trump that personality is awful).
Still, time will tell if I am right or the narrative voters have made a good choice.
Why would I include Len McKlunky? He's not impactful. Is he even still alive?
Not heard of Sharon. She must be really pivotal in the weft of history.
And yet people still mention him when the rest of us are slagging off the current plague of right wing tosspots, 'for balance'.
Balance, my arse.
(And whatabout Jeremy Corbyn?
. 
)
I was satirising my conversation with you.
In the great scheme of things a few lefties in the BMA is completely irrelevant. It does not 'balance' Trump, Badenough, Orban and the other right wing lunatics that are swarming all over global politics and swamping the imagination of the gullable with their nonsense.
I did find a fat bloke defending your narrative here:
And the Torygraph asks 'the' question here:
Has the militant Left taken over the British Medical Association?
The almighty battle at the heart of the doctors' union might be the real reason you still can't see your GP
www.telegraph.co.uk
The answer is obviously 'no' or the headline wouldn't be a question.
It seems that the militant BMA is a reddit conspiracy.
Junior doctors strike: How a Reddit rebellion took over the British Medical Association
The future of the NHS was on the table but across it, facing the health secretary, were scenes bordering on farce.During talks to avert the most disruptive st
www.thetimes.com
Who knew?
Lovely old research.
I was satirising my conversation with you.
In the great scheme of things a few lefties in the BMA is completely irrelevant. It does not 'balance' Trump, Badenough, Orban and the other right wing lunatics that are swarming all over global politics and swamping the imagination of the gullable with their nonsense.
I did find a fat bloke defending your narrative here:
And the Torygraph asks 'the' question here:
Has the militant Left taken over the British Medical Association?
The almighty battle at the heart of the doctors' union might be the real reason you still can't see your GP
The answer is obviously 'no' or the headline wouldn't be a question.
It seems that the militant BMA is a reddit conspiracy.
Junior doctors strike: How a Reddit rebellion took over the British Medical Association
The future of the NHS was on the table but across it, facing the health secretary, were scenes bordering on farce.During talks to avert the most disruptive st
Who knew?
Lovely old research.
I haven’t seen these pieces you have chosen to show, but I have read a large article that was in the Sunday edition of the Times a while back, the Nick Robinson article with Emma Runswick I referred to and a number of letters to the Times from unhappy doctors.
Satirising our conversation? Hmm. I will say no more for danger of upsetting our usual NSC relationship.
Yeah, I didn't explain that very well.I haven’t seen these pieces you have chosen to show, but I have read a large article that was in the Sunday edition of the Times a while back, the Nick Robinson article with Emma Runswick I referred to and a number of letters to the Times from unhappy doctors.
Satirising our conversation? Hmm. I will say no more for danger of upsetting our usual NSC relationship.
(I am surprised there hasn't been a deluge of letters from irritated well-paid GPs criticizing the BMA. This would hardly prove a point, however. They are a different breed to the young hospital doctors. I say 'young'. My 34 year old colleague whose marriage was at risk due to his long hours and relatively low income associated with his status, who emigrated to Canada to save the situation, may have a different take on the BMA and the tutting GPs and their letters to the Telegraph. I wonder if the rank and file doctors will be refusing the pay rise that the BMA has 'won' for them?).
(I suspect an hour over a beer would be needed to resolve our 'perspective issue' on this occasion. Possibly two
)
RandyWanger
Je suis rôti de boeuf
Democracy no, the establishment yes and its going to be fun to see. Maybe thats the Sussex coming out of me.
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 642
General Secretary of Unite. Hardliner- not a fan of StarmerWhy would I include Len McKlunky? He's not impactful. Is he even still alive?
Not heard of Sharon. She must be really pivotal in the weft of history.
Oh she’s a problem alright Harry no doubt about it. My guess is she will push her luck with this Government and may even have a part to play in it’s downfall.
Presumably I will have heard of her by the time that happens.
OK, I'll look her up.
"Graham was elected the general secretary of Unite on 25 August 2021 with 46,696 votes, 37.7% of the votes cast, less than 4% of the membership,[25] and took office on 26 August.[26][27][28] In September 2021, she wrote in The Guardian that Unite should focus more on fighting "for jobs, pay and conditions" rather than "hoping for the election of a Labour government to solve our members' problems".[29] The same month, she warned Keir Starmer that he had "lost touch with reality" because of his intention to change the Labour Party leadership election rules.[30] On 9 February 2022, following the controversial treatment of workers at Labour-led Coventry Council, she stated that all remaining Labour funding was "under review".[31] Starmer said that the Labour Party would not be "influenced by threats".[32] In 2023, Graham's confrontational approach to the Labour Party led to the New Statesman naming her as the eleventh most powerful Left Wing figure in the UK that year.[33]"
Eleventh most powerful left wing figure.....back by a tumescent 4% of her union. Crikey. If you imagine that this person will lead her 4% into a General Strike, and bring down the Labour government, I salute your negativity. Or optimism, depending on your heart's desires
.(Did I just see Sir Kier raise one eyebrow?
)Hi Harry,Yeah, I didn't explain that very well.
(I am surprised there hasn't been a deluge of letters from irritated well-paid GPs criticizing the BMA. This would hardly prove a point, however. They are a different breed to the young hospital doctors. I say 'young'. My 34 year old colleague whose marriage was at risk due to his long hours and relatively low income associated with his status, who emigrated to Canada to save the situation, may have a different take on the BMA and the tutting GPs and their letters to the Telegraph. I wonder if the rank and file doctors will be refusing the pay rise that the BMA has 'won' for them?).
(I suspect an hour over a beer would be needed to resolve our 'perspective issue' on this occasion. Possibly two
Thank you for your reply.
We will probably remain at odds over this and so be it.
By the way, the letters I read were in the Times and were from GPs and also hospital doctors, both still working and retired. I gave up on the Telegraph several years ago.
Finally and sadly, for someone who had a career in the brewing and pub industry, my capacity for quaffing ale has, with the passing of time, reduced considerably and a lousy one pint is my limit now. I can drink the stuff, but the suffering next day is not worth it. Still, I can look back on some fond memories.
On a happier note, I bet you enjoyed the match yesterday. I certainly did from the comfort of my sofa and after the first half I really didn’t think we would get anything from it.
Last edited:
Rdodge30
Well-known member
- Dec 30, 2022
- 642
McCluskey writes at some length about something called Unite’s “leverage strategy”, organised by Graham This, he explains, is the strategy his union adopted when disputes were at their most intractable, or could not be settled by strike action alone. If a company sacked one of McCluskey’s shop stewards or reneged on a union recognition agreement, its chief executive could expect protesters outside their golf club, and the firms with whom they did business would be pressured too. When the construction giant Balfour Beatty withdrew from an agreement with unions in 2012, Unite sent its friends in the US Teamsters union to occupy the chief executive’s office in Dallas.Presumably I will have heard of her by the time that happens.
OK, I'll look her up.
"Graham was elected the general secretary of Unite on 25 August 2021 with 46,696 votes, 37.7% of the votes cast, less than 4% of the membership,[25] and took office on 26 August.[26][27][28] In September 2021, she wrote in The Guardian that Unite should focus more on fighting "for jobs, pay and conditions" rather than "hoping for the election of a Labour government to solve our members' problems".[29] The same month, she warned Keir Starmer that he had "lost touch with reality" because of his intention to change the Labour Party leadership election rules.[30] On 9 February 2022, following the controversial treatment of workers at Labour-led Coventry Council, she stated that all remaining Labour funding was "under review".[31] Starmer said that the Labour Party would not be "influenced by threats".[32] In 2023, Graham's confrontational approach to the Labour Party led to the New Statesman naming her as the eleventh most powerful Left Wing figure in the UK that year.[33]"
Eleventh most powerful left wing figure.....back by a tumescent 4% of her union. Crikey. If you imagine that this person will lead her 4% into a General Strike, and bring down the Labour government, I salute your negativity. Or optimism, depending on your heart's desires
(Did I just see Sir Kier raise one eyebrow?
He describes her as “the best organiser in the whole of Europe”. So much so that she once managed to close a toll bridge in Toronto after Unite wound up in dispute with its Spanish operator, who had sacked a shop steward working in London. I wonder if McCluskey would write that now.
2012 you say?
McLusky quit the labour party in 2024.
Good.
If Starmer raised an eyebrow earlier, I suspect he's now lowered it.
As I noted earlier, I don't know whether you are all excited about Labour being overthrown by a trade unionist, or worried. Either way I wouldn't hold my breath.