[Politics] Is democracy in crisis?

[nicko31]

Sorry mate you are the one talking horse shit , this country is being run like a police state , with a party so far to the left , by people who are probably the least qualified, least Talented , least experience that this country has ever had ,

Nothing from the 2010-2024 period to make us more like a police state then? All the fault the commie Starmer's crew

 

[ManOfSussex]

That’s a negative, and right now I need two positives

I'm not coming to your baptist church!

 

[beorhthelm]

What an incredibly patronising piece of horse shit.

Immigration is needed in this country all the time there’s a birth rate, as there is currently, of 1.69 in this country.

I bet you’re one of those whinging about WFP without the slightest realisation that future generations of pensioners will be impoverished without the young adults to fill the government’s coffers.

Luckily we have a government addressing this long term issue as well as the impending climate crisis instead of the thoughts of cab drivers who can’t see beyond next week.

i find it odd how this has become so accepted. the implication being migrants purpose is as a conveyor belt of cheap or willing labour to serve us in old age.

wouldn't it be good idea to consider changing things so we didn't need to do that?

 

[Guinness Boy]

These days if you try to burn down a hotel and all it’s occupants you get arrested and thrown in jail.

 

[WATFORD zero]

i find it odd how this has become so accepted. the implication is migrants purpose is as a convayor belt of cheap or willing labour to serve us in old age.

wouldn't it be good idea to consider changing things so we didn't need to do that?

Logan's run ?

 

[Guinness Boy]

i find it odd how this has become so accepted. the implication being migrants purpose is as a conveyor belt of cheap or willing labour to serve us in old age.

wouldn't it be good idea to consider changing things so we didn't need to do that?

What’s your solution?

 

[heathgate]

You're right that the electorate was never highly informed. However, large swathes of people are now misinformed like never before.

Were they not equally misinformed through the history of democracy,?.... and in fact I would go as far as saying that the blanket hardcopy newspapers of days gone by, were more of a threat than the swathes of internet information you see today, at least today you can fact check if you are motivated..... you had no other sources to consume back even as recent as the 70s....

 

[Bakero]

For a start, if there is a 'police state' it's because of the freedoms and civil liberties gradually eroded over the last 20 years or so, mainly by the Tories with things like the prohibition of much of the right to protest and so on - little to do with this government.

And secondly - Starmer's party is more to the right than even Blair's labour. The far left of Corbyn was soundly rejected at the ballot box.

All good points but was Corbyn really far left? Also, in 2017 his Labour got 40% of the vote, just 2% less than the Conservatives, so clearly a lot of people (~13 million) were interested in what he was offering.

 

[Hugo Rune]

These days if you try to burn down a hotel and all it’s occupants you get arrested and thrown in jail.

You can’t even skip court and leave the country for fear of being arrested when you return FFS!

 

[Bakero]

Were they not equally misinformed through the history of democracy,?.... and in fact I would go as far as saying that the blanket hardcopy newspapers of days gone by, were more of a threat than the swathes of internet information you see today, at least today you can fact check if you are motivated..... you had no other sources to consume back even as recent as the 70s....

I think you underestimate the level of disinformation online and how it's targeted. A whole different kettle of fish to media bias in past decades.

 

[Bodian]

All good points but was Corbyn really far left? Also, in 2017 his Labour got 40% of the vote, just 2% less than the Conservatives, so clearly a lot of people (~13 million) were interested in what he was offering.

Maybe not - but he was left of Starmer. And didn't get in. Whether he would have won in 2024 with the disillusionment re the Tories we shall never know.

 

[nicko31]

i find it odd how this has become so accepted. the implication being migrants purpose is as a conveyor belt of cheap or willing labour to serve us in old age.

wouldn't it be good idea to consider changing things so we didn't need to do that?

When you have a declining birth rate the numbers aren't there. We can't all do a Boris Johnson

 

[beorhthelm]

What’s your solution?

i dont know. there's probably no palatable answer, something will have to change with our economics, expectations and outlook for retirement. but i'm pretty sure though depending upon forever immigration wont work out long term, and along the way it creates inherent division.

 

[Weststander]

I think you underestimate the level of disinformation online and how it's targeted. A whole different kettle of fish to media bias in past decades.

On an industrial scale, often from overseas.

A large part of society now believe the lying vloggers over true experts.

 

[Bodian]

i dont know. there's probably no palatable answer, something will have to change with our economics, expectations and outlook for retirement. but i'm pretty sure though depending upon forever immigration wont work out long term, and along the way it creates inherent division.

I guess the real question is 'why does it create inherent division'?

Solve that, and the problem goes away.

 

[aftershavedave]

I'd say yes. The politicisation of news by our media & overseas is really concerning. The events of Thursday in Amsterdam for example. widely reported as a "pogrom" turns out to be nothing of the sort, but is fed to us as such. It's disturbing. I understand that even Biden has commented

 

[Rdodge30]

I disagree.

From what I can see 'the left' (i.e., the equivalent of 'the right' - the extremists) are absolutely useless at winning hearts and minds, inventing shit that becomes accepted as fact, gaining any traction with wider society, etc.

When was the last time a hard left party won a general election? Anywhere?

The hard left are irrelevant. They don't even own a cat, let alone have a dog in the fight.

Someone posted on here a while ago that the doctors' union', the British Medical Association (which is in fact a professional governing body) is a militant organization run by Marxists intent on bringing down society and are hated by rank and file doctors who just want to get on with their jobs.

This makes the BMA the leading (and only) player from the 'hard left' in this eternal battle with the likes of Trump, Musk, Badenough, the clown in Hungary, the clown in France, the clown in Germany, the clown in Sweden and so on.

For the sake of balance I am suggesting that your perception of a balance between the nefarious right and the nefarious left is a somewhat one-eyed take on the sociopolitical landscape.

And I say that as someone who is not bovvered about the way things are - if the whole world wants to buy into the Musk/Trump vision, they can fill their boots. It is all same old same old as far as I can see. "If you want a n***** for a neighbour, vote Labour". We have heard it all before. And we move on. And dull old Starmer suits me fine at the moment.

Perhaps you might include a whole raft of union leaders/members from the last couple of decades … Len McCluskey perhaps… Sharon Graham … too many to mention

 

[The Clamp]

“Everyone is entitled to their opinion in a democracy and shouldn’t be insulted for voicing their opinion”

It’s my opinion that a lot of people who voted for Trump are stupid for doing so.


“How f***ing dare you! You’re not allowed to say that you patronising lefty ****”

 

[Chicken Run]

“Everyone is entitled to their opinion in a democracy and shouldn’t be insulted for voicing their opinion”

It’s my opinion that a lot of people who voted for Trump are stupid for doing so.


“How f***ing dare you! You’re not allowed to say that you patronising lefty ****”

Ahh but TC swap out “stupid for doing so” with “Stupid” and it sounds a whole lot different

 

[Thunder Bolt]

i find it odd how this has become so accepted. the implication being migrants purpose is as a conveyor belt of cheap or willing labour to serve us in old age.

wouldn't it be good idea to consider changing things so we didn't need to do that?

Cheap labour doesn’t pay much in taxes.
Care workers and hospitality do need workers, but there’s also a major skills shortage. We desperately need 40,000 nurses, and there’s a massive shortage of vets and dentists, especially after Brexit.