Eastleigh Seagull
Member
Voroshilov said:
Now that is funny. What concerns me is that you genuinely believe that.
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Iran to go Nuclear
- Thread starter Brighton Breezy
- Start date
Now that is funny. What concerns me is that you genuinely believe that.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
I'm sure you can point me in the direction of the evidencewhich proves me wrong ES
Eastleigh Seagull
Member
Just a few facts:
all of the states you mention refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a state.
A number of them contiue to support terrorist groups that operate in Israel.
Just the states you refer to have a combines standing military of over 900,000 people. You could quite safely chuck in a few extra states should a conflict ever break out in the region.
Israel has a standing force of 168,000 (admittedly better trained and equipped.
My opinion: Nuclear weapons have prevented a major conflict in the region.
all of the states you mention refuse to acknowledge the right of Israel to exist as a state.
A number of them contiue to support terrorist groups that operate in Israel.
Just the states you refer to have a combines standing military of over 900,000 people. You could quite safely chuck in a few extra states should a conflict ever break out in the region.
Israel has a standing force of 168,000 (admittedly better trained and equipped.
My opinion: Nuclear weapons have prevented a major conflict in the region.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
Except Egypt and Jordan
Well Syria probably do, the Lebanese state can only do as much as Syria lets it and Egypt and Jordan, well no.
What was the sizes of Saddams army and what was the size of the US's better equipped coalition?
I respect your opinion but in my opinion they haven't made a differnece.
Eastleigh Seagull
Member
fair enough I f***ed up on the diplomatic front - although many more states in the region do not acknowledge Israel than do (Egypt only did after losing in the war and they are joined by Jordan and Morocco).
Depends which war you are talking about with Iraq against the US. Although in both cases the ratio of forces was about 2:1 in favour of Iraq and the Iraqi forces were pretty battle hardened. Unfortunately though you cant really compare the two situations - Israeli problems come with a lack of strategic depth given that it takes four minutes to fly across the country.
That is the problem with nuclear deterrence though - no-one can ever prove that it has worked. We only know when it has failed
Depends which war you are talking about with Iraq against the US. Although in both cases the ratio of forces was about 2:1 in favour of Iraq and the Iraqi forces were pretty battle hardened. Unfortunately though you cant really compare the two situations - Israeli problems come with a lack of strategic depth given that it takes four minutes to fly across the country.
That is the problem with nuclear deterrence though - no-one can ever prove that it has worked. We only know when it has failed
3gulls said:I can feel a pre-emptive strike coming on. I hope they hit them hard!
I don't, I hope we stay well away. If they all want to nuke themselves stupid then let them, but a pre-emptive strike or anything else along those lines is only going to cause a lot more anti-West feeling in the Islamic world and subsequent increase in terrorism etc.
Not to mention probably nuclear retaliation if any of those states do actually have any working nuclear weapons.
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
samparish said:
Well I'm sorry but I dont care about pissing off people by preventing them from murdering us.
Not much of a choice is it? Let the arabs carry on with there genocide and hope they dont try to invade Europe again. Or piss em of by stepping in. I and most sensible people would prefer the latter.
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
looney said:
1) What genocide?
2) Iranians aren't Arabs
3) The moorish caliphates of Spain were enlightened Kingdoms which allowed art and science to flourish. They allowed ahigh degree of religious freedom unlike their (christian, western) succesors
looney said:
They are far more likely to start murdering us if we start bombing them. I know its alien to Bush, but if we actually try and build decent relations with the Arab world (by not bankrolling Israel's repeated violation of UN resolutions for one thing) then they might not hate us quite as much.
samparish said:
Sound to me like you're getting the wrong end of the stick. I was talking about a conventional strike. If it pisses the Iranians off -well tough. There is outstanding business still to be settled with them!
If this is not settled before they actually get their hands on nukes, they will not hesitate to use them as life is so cheap to them.
looney
Banned
- Jul 7, 2003
- 15,652
1) What genocide?
Nuking Israel? Driving the jews into the sea.
2) Iranians aren't Arabs
True but Syrians are, I was generalising. We are not europeans, but then again maybe we are depending who you talk to.
3) The moorish caliphates of Spain were enlightened Kingdoms which allowed art and science to flourish. They allowed ahigh degree of religious freedom unlike their (christian, western) succesors
Which begs the question what went wrong and why do 20% of British Muslims sypathise with Bin Laden.
They are far more likely to start murdering us if we start bombing them. I know its alien to Bush, but if we actually try and build decent relations with the Arab world (by not bankrolling Israel's repeated violation of UN resolutions for one thing) then they might not hate us quite as much.
This is conjecture and try not to state opinion as fact unless you cant tell the difference.
Why do they hate us? Who exactley is "us"?
Nuking Israel? Driving the jews into the sea.
2) Iranians aren't Arabs
True but Syrians are, I was generalising. We are not europeans, but then again maybe we are depending who you talk to.
3) The moorish caliphates of Spain were enlightened Kingdoms which allowed art and science to flourish. They allowed ahigh degree of religious freedom unlike their (christian, western) succesors
Which begs the question what went wrong and why do 20% of British Muslims sypathise with Bin Laden.
They are far more likely to start murdering us if we start bombing them. I know its alien to Bush, but if we actually try and build decent relations with the Arab world (by not bankrolling Israel's repeated violation of UN resolutions for one thing) then they might not hate us quite as much.
This is conjecture and try not to state opinion as fact unless you cant tell the difference.
Why do they hate us? Who exactley is "us"?
Tom Bombadil
Well-known member
3gulls said:Sound to me like you're getting the wrong end of the stick. I was talking about a conventional strike. If it pisses the Iranians off -well tough. There is outstanding business still to be settled with them!
If this is not settled before they actually get their hands on nukes, they will not hesitate to use them as life is so cheap to them.
Can I just check I understand you right. Are you saying you think that as soon as the Iranians get hold of nuclear weapons they are going to use them?
3gulls said:Sound to me like you're getting the wrong end of the stick. I was talking about a conventional strike. If it pisses the Iranians off -well tough. There is outstanding business still to be settled with them!
If this is not settled before they actually get their hands on nukes, they will not hesitate to use them as life is so cheap to them.
What outstanding business exactly?
It will also be a lot more than just being 'tough' if we bomb them by conventional or any other methods. It will only serve to (in their eyes anyway) prove a lot of Islamic fundamentalists right and make them hate the West even more. And so terrorist attacks will go up again.
Actually talking to these states to try and dissuade them from building nukes and improving their human rights record rather than threatening them (ie axis of evil) will achieve a lot more than bombing the shit out of them.
Brighton Breezy
New member
- Thread starter
- #39
I think we should act before Iran develop Nuclear missiles and pose a threat to not just the West, but the rest of their region as well.