Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

[Prettyboyshaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

'Them'? Who are 'them?' Fellow humans from other countries and another cultures - i.e. ragheads? I suppose I am just very impressed that you can characterise hundreds of milliions of people in one phrase. That's plain awesome.

Here we go, make a point and get made out to be a BNP supporting, KKK Grand Wizard.

You are one of the blinkered fucks that won't have an open discussion about a serious problem without screaming racist at anyone of the other side.

I am talking about the young British muslims that think terrorism is the new cool and the West is scum. Yet they live in the West, dress in western clothes, benefit from western society and enjoy the freedom the west has. Won't condemn their 'brothers and sisters' who want to blow up their real neighbours, work colleagues and any other poor innocent wanker that may happen to be taking a trip.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

I'm not a fan of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad but he was voted in in a democracy probably fairer than Bush.

I think you ned to look a little more closely t the electoral process in Iran before making that claim. I take it you're not aware that only candidates approved by the unelected religious authorities are permitted to run for election.

 

[bhaexpress]

I think you ned to look a little more closely t the electoral process in Iran before making that claim. I take it you're not aware that only candidates approved by the unelected religious authorities are permitted to run for election.

Are women allowed to vote in Iran ?

 

[Southover Street Seagull]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Here we go, make a point and get made out to be a BNP supporting, KKK Grand Wizard.

You are one of the blinkered fucks that won't have an open discussion about a serious problem without screaming racist at anyone of the other side.

I am talking about the young British muslims that think terrorism is the new cool and the West is scum. Yet they live in the West, dress in western clothes, benefit from western society and enjoy the freedom the west has. Won't condemn their 'brothers and sisters' who want to blow up their real neighbours, work colleagues and any other poor innocent wanker that may happen to be taking a trip.

I have often wondered what it takes for someone bron and bred in this country to take such violent action as the 7th July bombers.
Why are these people so disaffcted by this country? Is just purely brainwashing or something more?

 

[Commander]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Here we go, make a point and get made out to be a BNP supporting, KKK Grand Wizard.

You are one of the blinkered fucks that won't have an open discussion about a serious problem without screaming racist at anyone of the other side.

I am talking about the young British muslims that think terrorism is the new cool and the West is scum. Yet they live in the West, dress in western clothes, benefit from western society and enjoy the freedom the west has. Won't condemn their 'brothers and sisters' who want to blow up their real neighbours, work colleagues and any other poor innocent wanker that may happen to be taking a trip.

Great post.

 

[Lammy]

I think you ned to look a little more closely t the electoral process in Iran before making that claim. I take it you're not aware that only candidates approved by the unelected religious authorities are permitted to run for election.

I agree their 'democracy' ain't perfect. Only wonem can vote for example (actually hang on a minute...) but I bet the person with the most votes one! Something that didn't happen when Bush came to power. Again I'm not saying he's right, I'm saying they're both wrong. So they have no right to judge each other.

 

[Commander]

I agree their 'democracy' ain't perfect. Only wonem can vote for example (actually hang on a minute...) but I bet the person with the most votes one!

Sorry?

 

[London Irish]

Re: Re: Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

In my opinion the arabs (and many other muslims) are among the biggest hypocrits on earth. I have lived in the Gulf so I do know what I'm talking about. No alcohol or gambling in their own countries, women covered .... and the moment they're out of the country what do they do? Get drunk and chase western women. The hundreds of Saudis who drive across the causeway to Bahrain every weekend are there to do just that ... escape their own country's ban on alcohol and sleaze. And then they have a short break from the womanising to go to daily prayers. Bloody hypocrits the lot of them.

This behaviour is just among the corrupt feudal elite running the country that we support to the hilt, isn't it? So why tar all Arabs and Muslims with the accusation of hypocrisy?

 

[London Irish]

I think you ned to look a little more closely t the electoral process in Iran before making that claim. I take it you're not aware that only candidates approved by the unelected religious authorities are permitted to run for election.

Well, that may be the case. But he still defeated a candidate who was presented as a moderate in favour of closer ties with the West (and actually who was regarded as a favourite to win even among the Iranians), Rafsanjani. But alas Iran's voters went for Ahmadinejad.

I'm not aware there were allegations of intimidation or vote-rigging - certainly not by the defeated Rafsanjani, it looks as though the Iranian people just preferred a conservative. That's a shame, but the problem with democracy is that it doesn't always produce the outcome everyone desires, look at Hamas winning the leadership of the Palestinian people in their general election.

Rather than us just bulldozing what there is of Iranian democracy (flawed as it is, it was better than the corrupt dictatorship of the Shah which we supported 100 per cent) with our sanctions and then with our bombs and tanks, we could try and appeal to the better, reformist instincts of the Iranian people themselves.

 

[London Irish]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Interview with Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

Here we go, make a point and get made out to be a BNP supporting, KKK Grand Wizard.

You are one of the blinkered fucks that won't have an open discussion about a serious problem without screaming racist at anyone of the other side.

He didn't accuse you either of being a BNP supporter or a racist, but just indulging in a lot of unhelpful generalisations about Muslims. How many times does this have to be said, they are not all the same, there are thousand different viewpoints among the Muslim community here. Just lumping them all into one is just simplistic and doesn't illuminate anything.

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Well, that may be the case. But he still defeated a candidate who was presented as a moderate in favour of closer ties with the West (and actually who was regarded as a favourite to win even among the Iranians), Rafsanjani. But alas Iran's voters went for Ahmadinejad.

I'm not aware there were allegations of intimidation or vote-rigging - certainly not by the defeated Rafsanjani, it looks as though the Iranian people just preferred a conservative. That's a shame, but the problem with democracy is that it doesn't always produce the outcome everyone desires, look at Hamas winning the leadership of the Palestinian people in their general election.

Rather than us just bulldozing what there is of Iranian democracy (flawed as it is, it was better than the corrupt dictatorship of the Shah which we supported 100 per cent) with our sanctions and then with our bombs and tanks, we could try and appeal to the better, reformist instincts of the Iranian people themselves.

I follow your argument LI but I don't think you've taken into account the lack of a free press (in the western sense) that would allow the moderates to fight on a level playing field with the likes of Ahmedinejad.
The Iranian system as I understand it is only a quasi-democracy In truth the ayatollahs run the country and even Ahmedinejad can only do as much as the Theocracy allows him.

 

[London Irish]

I follow your argument LI but I don't think you've taken into account the lack of a free press (in the western sense) that would allow the moderates to fight on a level playing field with the likes of Ahmedinejad.
The Iranian system as I understand it is only a quasi-democracy In truth the ayatollahs run the country and even Ahmedinejad can only do as much as the Theocracy allows him.

I agree that it is a Theocracy but just that the political system is a little more complex than perhaps the way it might come across in your depiction. I think there are differences of opinion among the theocrats themselves, after all, Rafsanjani himself is a high-ranking cleric and hence can be seen as a representative of its moderate wing. The interaction between the Theocracy and the Iranian masses is also two-way. Yes, the clerics set the limits on the debate, ban political candidates and newspapers that are regarded as too radical, but their actions will also be influenced and be guided too by a popular mood among the Iranian people.

Before the latest demonisation of Iran by Bush and his cohort of warmongering twats, there was widespread recognition that progress had been made in Iran thanks to pressure on the clerics by Iranian business groups and other representatives of civil society. At the time, the election a year ago was presented as an example of liberalisation, being the first were there seemed to be real discernable differences in the presidential candidates, ie. a real choice for the Iranian people.

The shock of Ahmedinejad's victory a year ago seems to have erased all memory of that. But my view is that the current warmongering pressure exterted by Bush is likely to strengthen the likes of Ahmedinejad and the hardliners' hold over the Iranian people. If you are threatened by an outsider, an electorate is alwalys likely to move to someone exploiting the fears of the electorate with hardline rhetoric.

This has not only happened in Iran, but it also happened in America post 9-11 and hence we have religious conservative hardliners installed in both Washington and Tehran.

Britain should be persuing an independent foreign policy that seeks alliances with Iranian moderates like Rafsanjani (who still holds high political office in Iran, Ahmedinejad has not conducted a purge of moderates) and also the Iranian business community. But this is of course hopeless for as long as Blair remains in the thrall of the US conservative nutters.

Take a look at this Business Week article from just over a year ago, on the early weeks of the campaigning in the Presidential election, Rafsanjani was ahead in the opinion polls and the outcome looked very different to what it is now! http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_26/b3939098_mz015.htm

Then have a look at Business Week a few weeks later, after Ahmedinejad's win. It is important to note the reasons for the victory, not just the nationalist, anti-US stance of Ahmedinejad but also his anti-corruption stance - this I think is an example of the pressure of the masses that I have referred to. Ironic also that in a Theocracy, that Ahmedinejad, a non-cleric and local politician, beat Rafsanjani, famed as a cleric and a bag-carrier for Ayatollah Khomeni.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_28/b3942054_mz015.htm

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Nicely argued post as usual LI.

Yes Ahmedinejad is an excellent politician, but I still believe you are failing to appreciate just how strictly the religious authorities control the field of play. What you also fail to mention is the intimidation of institutions such as the Revolutionary Guard who are used in support of the candidates of the clericy.

I think you are falling into the classic leftist trap of supporting the enemies of the US simply because they are americas enemies, and failing to be as critical of the regime as you would otherwise be.

 

[Commander]

I think you are falling into the classic leftist trap of supporting the enemies of the US simply because they are americas enemies, and failing to be as critical of the regime as you would otherwise be.

Spot on.

 

[London Irish]

I think you are falling into the classic leftist trap of supporting the enemies of the US simply because they are americas enemies, and failing to be as critical of the regime as you would otherwise be.

Given that I directly compared Ahmedinejad with Bush - really you don't get a worse criticism of any politician from me than that, trust me

And given that I outlined what I think is the only realistic strategy that Britain can follow in isolating Ahmedinejad from the Iranian people, I feel it is not true to say that I am in any way not critical of this regime. As a secular socialist, I would be among the first people that Ahmedinejad would put in the slammer!