[Albion] Internationals

[Weststander]

Get out of jail free card from convict Maguire...

Is he still taking the Greek Police to The International Court of Justice?

 

[Gun shot]

Rybus is a decent player. England haven't won it yet.

 

[Gun shot]

Get out of jail free card from convict Maguire...

There's the Sun headline tomorrow bar the convict.

 

[Weststander]

Rybus is a decent player. England haven't won it yet.

He’s certainly dogged.

 

[BN41Albion]

Well that was shyte, can't stand the way we set up with so many exciting players at our disposal. No subs at 1-1 with 10 to play after looking flat all half. Southgate is crap, isn't he? Someone like Potter would be perfect for the England job imo. Not that I'd want him to take it, of course.

Glad I watched only to see Moder score

 

[KZNSeagull]

Germany 1 North Macedonia 2.

 

[Change at Barnham]

They'll be dancing in the streets of North Macedonia tonight!

F-T: Germany 1 North Macedonia 2

 

[Gun shot]

I find this current England team the most dislikeable in all the years I've followed them. And that includes the Manchester United brat pack - Paul Scholes in particular.

If I still haven't had my first Covid jab by then I won't be watching them (or anyone) at Wembley or in the pub in June.

 

[Change at Barnham]

Nick Pope's lack of control with ball at his feet turns the England defence into a bag of nerves.
He's a liability. I'd prefer Alex McCarthy.

 

[A1X]

Too young for Dean Wilkins consolation goal in 1991.

Too young to have seen it

 

[Blue3]

Harry Maguire will be reporting back that they need to watch young Molder on Sunday

 

[Weststander]

They'll be dancing in the streets of North Macedonia tonight!

F-T: Germany 1 North Macedonia 2

We are the best in the world! We are the best in the world! We have beaten Germany 2-1 in football!! It is completely unbelievable! We have beaten Germany! Germany, birthplace of giants. Otto von Bismarck, Hindenburg, Ferdinand Porsche, Robert Krups, Dr Mengele, Claudia Schiffer - we have beaten them all. We have beaten them all.

Angela Merkel can you hear me? Angela Merkel, I have a message for you: Your boys took a hell of a beating!

 

[Robinjakarta]

That will teach them for not picking Dunk

Agree with the sentiments, and are any of us really surprised about what Stones did? Of course Dunk should be ahead of him. It won't happen under Southgate, though, because he's too thick/biased.

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

I don't want to start an argument here as I don't think we're miles apart on most things.

I agree - we could go around in circles when in reality we are not far apart - a few comments though -

Can't really counter what you're saying about Kenny's managerial record before Dundalk. What I would say is that most managers have very mixed CV's, I think most people would agree that you focus on where they're at more recently than trawling through their history. I'd watched his club side,

I agree - but what you are wanting to see is growth and progression from a manager who has a rising reputation. I would argue that Kenny doesn't have that. He knows the LOI well and knew which teams to take the reins of (he basically had his pick of the Irish clubs after his disaster in Scotland). But his time at Dundalk and as U21 manager must be considered with the talent he had available - talent that he was not responsible for finding/developing. Furthermore, he had zero experience of dealing with established PL/Championship footballers. The idea of bringing him on board was to nurture and bring through the talent at underage level - when the reality is that the person ideally suited to that, and who had a proven track record for it, was Brian Kerr. Of course the problem is that Kerr is persona non grata with the FAI.

I'd read lots of people compare his knowledge of Irish football to Brian Kerr (who it seems we both agree on), I was sold on him.

Kenny isn't remotely close to Brian Kerr - he may know Irish domestic football, but Kerr has a terrific brain about football in general. From Ireland I would rank Kerr second only to Johnny Giles in terms of football knowledge and in-depth understanding of the game. Kenny has never shown anything that would indicate he is capable of managing the Irish international team.

Also RE: O'Neill and Rodgers, I was clearly talking about actual serious prospects for taking the job at this stage.

We don't need an Irish manager to manage the international team - there are dozens of managers far more capable that are available - here are just four to come to mind -

Luis Fernandez - youth team manager at PSG who previously managed PSG (twice), Bilbao, Espanyol, Real Betis, Reims - before having stints with Israel and Guinea. Noted for playing a possession based attacking game and bringing on young players.

Maurizio Sarri - I could list all the teams that he managed but I'd be here a while - again, noted for attention to detail, a relaxed approach (important at international level) and for developing young players - is now 62 and could well want to move into international management.

Quique Sánchez Flores - 20 years experience managing top clubs and was Real Madrid youth team coach - again noted for bringing through young players.

Bruno Labbadia - managed Leverkusen, Hamburg (twice), Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Hertha - noted for developing and bringing on young players.

In terms of the current players and the Prem/Championship debate: without looking back through pages of this thread I don't know what my exact wording was. But what I certainly meant was that going forward, we are looking at Championship players in terms of their general level AS WELL AS where they'd play the majority of their football. I stand by this - those players will be playing at that level next year, and at the moment they are mostly Championship quality players in bottom-half PL sides. Apologies for forgetting O'Shea (and you're right he definitely was the best player this week), but I'd be willing to bet money that all of those players (O'Shea and Egan included) will not be playing Premier League football next year. And for the most part they won't be standouts in the Championship either (the ones you pointed out, O'Shea and Egan, are the ones I'd predict otherwise). Totally disagree on Robinson in particular, I really like him as a player but I do not think he is top level standard.

Here is where we disagree -

Leaving out clubs likely to be relegated - current PL players - Coleman, Doherty, McCarthy, Clark, Hendrick, Brady

PL quality players likely relegated - Egan, O'Shea, Robinson (we can disagree). The only reason Egan isn't back in the PL is because he chooses to stay at Sheff U. I touted Egan for Brighton when Duffy was signed and I still believe he is a much better footballer. Every PL club should consider snapping up O'Shea, he can play CB and LB, is quick and learns quickly, was marshalling the Irish defence last week, and can pass the ball. If he doesn't end up in the PL next season he will go for big, big money the following year.

Players currently in the Championship -

Nathan Collins will be in the PL next season, three clubs were after him in January and there are rumours that Daren Fletcher wants Man U to sign him.

Jason Knight will also be in the PL - I expect Burnley to sign him as they have been after him for more than a year.

Norwich will get promoted and Adam Idah will be back in the PL - and watch for Andrew Omobamidele to make a big leap

Swansea could get promoted - Conor Hourihane has been a revelation since joining them and Villa were using him out of position - and they also have Ryan Manning who I think is very underrated (and better than Stevens and McClean).

On top of that Kelleher is a PL standard goalkeeper and would be snapped up by half the teams in the PL if he became available.

One thing to remember here - compared to 30/40/50 years ago the PL is flooded with foreign players - in the 1970s and 1980s they were few and far between and it was really only with the Sky money in the 1990s that international players came into English football.

In 1978 Ireland had one of the better Irish teams and in May 1978 Ireland drew away with Denmark in a Euro qualifier - the team was Kearns (Walsall Div 3)) , Mulligan (reserve at WBA and shortly to join Shamrock Rovers), Holmes (Spurs), O'Leary (Arsenal), Lawrenson (Brighton - Div 2), Daly (Derby), Giles (Shamrock Rovers), Grealish (Orient - Div 2), Heighway (Liverpool), Givens (QPR and joined Birmingham that summer), and Stapleton (Arsenal).

Six players in the top division - and that is without competition for places from foreign players. But that doesn't tell the whole story - the rest of the squad that season (excluding Liam Brady who was injured for the game) comprised of Synan Braddish (Dundalk), Jerome Clarke (Drogheda), Terry Conroy (Stoke - Div 2 and shortly to head for Hong Kong), Maurice Daly (a Wolves reserve who joined a Div 2 Swedish side that summer), Eamonn Gregg (Bohemians), Ashley Grimes (reserve at Man U), Davy Langan (a kid at Derby), Paul MaGee (just joined QPR from Sligo), Cathal Muckian (Drogheda), Gerry Ryan (just moved to Derby from Bohemians), Noel Synnott (Shamrock Rovers), Ray Treacy (Shamrock Rovers), Gerry Payton (Fulham Div 2)

We had a small number of players in the top division and the rest were journeymen - yet this team was an exciting team to watch.

Also agree with that list of promising players, but I wouldn't overstate it. As you rightly say there's a long way to go for a lot of them, and we need some of them to really come through and be top-level players. I was very excited by Idah but thought he was very poor when given a run out (I know he's young, poor side etc etc).

Idah is going to be a good player - remember - his games for Ireland came under Stephen Kenny. He has been very unlucky with injuries this season.

It is worth noting that when Connolly scored twice against Spurs last season, people were raving about him on here and talking about getting £50million for him. At the time I argued that Connolly was behind Parrott, Idah, Afolabi and Obafemi in the Irish youth set-up. Now connolly has moved ahead of Afolabi and Obafemi by virtue of a disastrous run of injuries for both that has completely derailed their progress - but he is still going to be behind Parrott and Idah. That is not to say that Connolly will not become a good player - the potential is there - but he has to grow,

Parrott is going to be a top player - he is unfortunate that Mourinho is at Spurs and his loan move to Millwall was disastrous - he got injured early on and then Rowlett wouldn't pick him. He has been fantastic at Ipswich, not as a striker, but as a no. 10 who is controlling the game week-in week-out and getting high praise from Paul Lambert, Matt Gill and Paul Cook.

The aforementioned Darragh O'Shea, Jason Knight and Nathan Collins are going to be PL players - and Bazunu will give Ireland a luxury at goalie. I expect Molumby to become an established PL player - he was very good last season at Millwall, but I think his loan move to Preston was ill-thought out and it has limited his progress. Conor Coventry is on the verge of a breakthrough at West Ham and hopefully that will happen next season and West Ham also have Mipo Odubeko who turned down Man U, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Juventus to sign with West Ham. Another player capable of making the leap to the PL is Peterborough's Jack Taylor - he has been the powerhouse behind their promotion push all season. Also expect to see John Joe Finn from Getafe and Conor Noss at Munchengladbach to become top players. John Patrick (as Finn is known in Spain) at 17 years of age has been making waves in the Getafe first team in the last couple of months. There is also Mark McGuiness who has been outstanding for Ipswich on loan from Arsenal and Tyreik Wright who has been playing very well at Walsall on loan from Villa despite being subjected to racist abuse at the club. Shane Flynn is in the Leicester first team squad and has just signed a new contract.

I could go on - but there is huge potential in the Irish underage ranks - not all will make it - but it is on the level of the underage set-up when Richard Dunne, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, John O'Shea came through.

Hard to argue on where Kenny has them tactically at the moment.

He hasn't a clue - and what is worse is that what Irish teams lacked in quality they made up for in fight and determination - there hasn't been any fight in any team that Kenny has put on the pitch in the last 11 games.

 

[Swansman]

Gary Dohert bla bla Ian Harte bla bla Clinton Morrison.

Indeed

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Indeed

smoking the whacky tobaccy again I see

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

Hard to argue on where Kenny has them tactically at the moment.

As an interesting addendum to this -

Brian Kerr gave an interview a couple of days ago - he outlined that throughout Kenny's managerial career he has never strayed from playing with a back four. For the first time in the Serbia game Kenny went to a back three with wing-backs. Kerr attributed the change in approach to the appointment 4 weeks ago of Chelsea's Anthony Barry to replace Damien Duff as one of Ireland's coaches. Kerr argued that while there was no issue with the appointment, it is a concern that Kenny changed his entire approach to setting up the team on the back of the influence from Barry - and - did it with only a couple of days of training before two important WC qualifiers.

In an interview the same day, Johnny Giles said that Kenny was unfortunate with the quality of players at his disposal, but that clearly those players cannot play the way Kenny wants them to. He continued by saying that, particularly as an international manager, you have to adapt to the strengths of the players that you have. Giles said that Kenny clearly adopted the wrong approach for the games against Serbia and Luxembourg. He argued that, whether he liked it or not, Kenny had to change his approach before the Portugal game in September or things would go downhill rapidly.

It has all the hallmarks of someone in charge that doesn't know what he is doing.

 

[rogersix]

I agree - we could go around in circles when in reality we are not far apart - a few comments though -


I agree - but what you are wanting to see is growth and progression from a manager who has a rising reputation. I would argue that Kenny doesn't have that. He knows the LOI well and knew which teams to take the reins of (he basically had his pick of the Irish clubs after his disaster in Scotland). But his time at Dundalk and as U21 manager must be considered with the talent he had available - talent that he was not responsible for finding/developing. Furthermore, he had zero experience of dealing with established PL/Championship footballers. The idea of bringing him on board was to nurture and bring through the talent at underage level - when the reality is that the person ideally suited to that, and who had a proven track record for it, was Brian Kerr. Of course the problem is that Kerr is persona non grata with the FAI.


Kenny isn't remotely close to Brian Kerr - he may know Irish domestic football, but Kerr has a terrific brain about football in general. From Ireland I would rank Kerr second only to Johnny Giles in terms of football knowledge and in-depth understanding of the game. Kenny has never shown anything that would indicate he is capable of managing the Irish international team.



We don't need an Irish manager to manage the international team - there are dozens of managers far more capable that are available - here are just four to come to mind -

Luis Fernandez - youth team manager at PSG who previously managed PSG (twice), Bilbao, Espanyol, Real Betis, Reims - before having stints with Israel and Guinea. Noted for playing a possession based attacking game and bringing on young players.

Maurizio Sarri - I could list all the teams that he managed but I'd be here a while - again, noted for attention to detail, a relaxed approach (important at international level) and for developing young players - is now 62 and could well want to move into international management.

Quique Sánchez Flores - 20 years experience managing top clubs and was Real Madrid youth team coach - again noted for bringing through young players.

Bruno Labbadia - managed Leverkusen, Hamburg (twice), Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and Hertha - noted for developing and bringing on young players.


Here is where we disagree -

Leaving out clubs likely to be relegated - current PL players - Coleman, Doherty, McCarthy, Clark, Hendrick, Brady

PL quality players likely relegated - Egan, O'Shea, Robinson (we can disagree). The only reason Egan isn't back in the PL is because he chooses to stay at Sheff U. I touted Egan for Brighton when Duffy was signed and I still believe he is a much better footballer. Every PL club should consider snapping up O'Shea, he can play CB and LB, is quick and learns quickly, was marshalling the Irish defence last week, and can pass the ball. If he doesn't end up in the PL next season he will go for big, big money the following year.

Players currently in the Championship -

Nathan Collins will be in the PL next season, three clubs were after him in January and there are rumours that Daren Fletcher wants Man U to sign him.

Jason Knight will also be in the PL - I expect Burnley to sign him as they have been after him for more than a year.

Norwich will get promoted and Adam Idah will be back in the PL - and watch for Andrew Omobamidele to make a big leap

Swansea could get promoted - Conor Hourihane has been a revelation since joining them and Villa were using him out of position - and they also have Ryan Manning who I think is very underrated (and better than Stevens and McClean).

On top of that Kelleher is a PL standard goalkeeper and would be snapped up by half the teams in the PL if he became available.

One thing to remember here - compared to 30/40/50 years ago the PL is flooded with foreign players - in the 1970s and 1980s they were few and far between and it was really only with the Sky money in the 1990s that international players came into English football.

In 1978 Ireland had one of the better Irish teams and in May 1978 Ireland drew away with Denmark in a Euro qualifier - the team was Kearns (Walsall Div 3)) , Mulligan (reserve at WBA and shortly to join Shamrock Rovers), Holmes (Spurs), O'Leary (Arsenal), Lawrenson (Brighton - Div 2), Daly (Derby), Giles (Shamrock Rovers), Grealish (Orient - Div 2), Heighway (Liverpool), Givens (QPR and joined Birmingham that summer), and Stapleton (Arsenal).

Six players in the top division - and that is without competition for places from foreign players. But that doesn't tell the whole story - the rest of the squad that season (excluding Liam Brady who was injured for the game) comprised of Synan Braddish (Dundalk), Jerome Clarke (Drogheda), Terry Conroy (Stoke - Div 2 and shortly to head for Hong Kong), Maurice Daly (a Wolves reserve who joined a Div 2 Swedish side that summer), Eamonn Gregg (Bohemians), Ashley Grimes (reserve at Man U), Davy Langan (a kid at Derby), Paul MaGee (just joined QPR from Sligo), Cathal Muckian (Drogheda), Gerry Ryan (just moved to Derby from Bohemians), Noel Synnott (Shamrock Rovers), Ray Treacy (Shamrock Rovers), Gerry Payton (Fulham Div 2)

We had a small number of players in the top division and the rest were journeymen - yet this team was an exciting team to watch.


Idah is going to be a good player - remember - his games for Ireland came under Stephen Kenny. He has been very unlucky with injuries this season.

It is worth noting that when Connolly scored twice against Spurs last season, people were raving about him on here and talking about getting £50million for him. At the time I argued that Connolly was behind Parrott, Idah, Afolabi and Obafemi in the Irish youth set-up. Now connolly has moved ahead of Afolabi and Obafemi by virtue of a disastrous run of injuries for both that has completely derailed their progress - but he is still going to be behind Parrott and Idah. That is not to say that Connolly will not become a good player - the potential is there - but he has to grow,

Parrott is going to be a top player - he is unfortunate that Mourinho is at Spurs and his loan move to Millwall was disastrous - he got injured early on and then Rowlett wouldn't pick him. He has been fantastic at Ipswich, not as a striker, but as a no. 10 who is controlling the game week-in week-out and getting high praise from Paul Lambert, Matt Gill and Paul Cook.

The aforementioned Darragh O'Shea, Jason Knight and Nathan Collins are going to be PL players - and Bazunu will give Ireland a luxury at goalie. I expect Molumby to become an established PL player - he was very good last season at Millwall, but I think his loan move to Preston was ill-thought out and it has limited his progress. Conor Coventry is on the verge of a breakthrough at West Ham and hopefully that will happen next season and West Ham also have Mipo Odubeko who turned down Man U, Bayern Munich, Borussia Dortmund and Juventus to sign with West Ham. Another player capable of making the leap to the PL is Peterborough's Jack Taylor - he has been the powerhouse behind their promotion push all season. Also expect to see John Joe Finn from Getafe and Conor Noss at Munchengladbach to become top players. John Patrick (as Finn is known in Spain) at 17 years of age has been making waves in the Getafe first team in the last couple of months. There is also Mark McGuiness who has been outstanding for Ipswich on loan from Arsenal and Tyreik Wright who has been playing very well at Walsall on loan from Villa despite being subjected to racist abuse at the club. Shane Flynn is in the Leicester first team squad and has just signed a new contract.

I could go on - but there is huge potential in the Irish underage ranks - not all will make it - but it is on the level of the underage set-up when Richard Dunne, Robbie Keane, Damien Duff, John O'Shea came through.



He hasn't a clue - and what is worse is that what Irish teams lacked in quality they made up for in fight and determination - there hasn't been any fight in any team that Kenny has put on the pitch in the last 11 games.

christonabike, you don't seriously expect anyone to read that.................... do you?

 

[Jolly Red Giant]

christonabike, you don't seriously expect anyone to read that.................... do you?

totally at your discretion roger