International Break

[keaton]

None of them have major leagues, I'm sure they could squeeze in a two-legged pre-qualifer playoff some time in the summer, before the qualifiers start up in September.

But then the loser would have two years of no competitive football, and you'd still have massively one-sided games just less of them.

I'm not sure I see a problem, games against Turkey and Greece used to be seen as pointless, walk-overs, they improved. Many countries won't improve but I still don't see the harm in treating all teams equally in qualifying.

 

[BensGrandad]

The premier want a mid season break what not scrub the league programme for December until Boxing Day and play the internationals then. Obviously no break for the good players but not the same intensity as the league program the other factor could be weather.

 

[halbpro]

Don't like to be the party pooper, but I have enjoyed this break more the. I have others. Don't know if it is because it is spread over the whole extended weekend, but it's nice there is always something to follow, summed up by the rather enjoyable Wales match the other night.

I was initially against UEFA's "Week of Football" proposal, but I actually think it's worked rather well.

 

[halbpro]

None of them have major leagues, I'm sure they could squeeze in a two-legged pre-qualifer playoff some time in the summer, before the qualifiers start up in September.

Well if you want to bring it down to 4 teams per group you need 32 in. How many of those 32 have to pre-qualify? And I know we discussed this on Friday, and I'm not looking to have a fight about it, just to discuss.

 

[Easy 10]

But then the loser would have two years of no competitive football, and you'd still have massively one-sided games just less of them.

I'm not sure I see a problem, games against Turkey and Greece used to be seen as pointless, walk-overs, they improved. Many countries won't improve but I still don't see the harm in treating all teams equally in qualifying.

Turkey and Greece, although poor in footballing terms, always had quite major leagues with professional players and fanatical followings, they were and are proper footballing nations. But I just don't see why semi-pro outfits from tiny nations / principalities should automatically be pitched into qualifying groups where they meet up with your Germanys and Spains. Is getting humped by 5,6,7,8 goals ever going to improve them ?

A line should be drawn at a certain point in the world rankings - if you're under it, then you pre-qualify. The incentive is then to do well enough in the non-competative internationals to work your way up above that line and improve enough to gain entrance to the groups without having to pre-qualify.

Then we can trim it down to groups of 4 and cut down on the amount of nonsense games we're having to see these days.

 

[Easy 10]

Well if you want to bring it down to 4 teams per group you need 32 in. How many of those 32 have to pre-qualify? And I know we discussed this on Friday, and I'm not looking to have a fight about it, just to discuss.

If we're now stuck with the newly expanded 24 team Euro Finals now instead of 16 (which is another complete and utter nonsense, but thats another argument), then you can have 11 groups of 4. Top 2 go through, plus one best 3rd place to give you 23 qualifiers, plus the hosts.

Everyone just plays 6 qualifiers instead of 10. Thats 2 less international breaks (if we're sticking with the double-headers), and a qualifying process with far less margin for error and hence more "edge" than the current snoozefest.

[edit]
11 groups, so (up to) 22 minnows have a pre-group qualifying playoff to be the 4th team in each group, or the 4th place in each group is already filled by the ones above the required ranking.

 

[halbpro]

If we're now stuck with the newly expanded 24 team Euro Finals now instead of 16 (which is another complete and utter nonsense, but thats another argument), then you can have 11 groups of 4. Top 2 go through, plus one best 3rd place to give you 23 qualifiers, plus the hosts.

Everyone just plays 6 qualifiers instead of 10. Thats 2 less international breaks (if we're sticking with the double-headers), and a qualifying process with far less margin for error and hence more "edge" than the current snoozefest.

[edit]
11 groups, so (up to) 22 minnows have a pre-group qualifying playoff to be the 4th team in each group, or the 4th place in each group is already filled by the ones above the required ranking.

44 teams in qualifying over 11 groups is actually a pretty good idea. If you just pick the top 44 you only miss off (based on the rankings used for the qualifying group seeding) Georgia, Cyprus, Luxembourg, Kazakhstan, Liechtenstein, the Faroe Islands, Malta, Andorra (where I found out they're super into roller hockey apparently), San Marino and Gibraltar, which seems kind of reasonable, although if we were to cut off the amount of teams I'd much prefer pre-qualification (I actually like the current system though). A pre-qualification system seems much fairer in my opinion, although it would require Wales, Northern Ireland and Iceland, currently top of their groups, to pre-qualify.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

I was all set to agree with [MENTION=70]Easy 10[/MENTION] before I took a quick look at the World Rankings. Here are the bottom 8 teams in Europe (excluding Gibraltor who bizarrely aren’t even in FIFA). The first number is world ranking, the 2nd European

Whilst there is no doubting that San Marino, Andorra and Liechtenstein are pub standard at best, Macedonia sticks out. They’ve drawn twice at Wembley in the only 2 games they have played there (most recently 2006) and are theoretically one of the worst 8 teams in European football. Kazakhstan were leading the Dutch at half time last week. Estonia, much derided before the game last week were only 1 game away from qualifying for the last European championship – ranked 81st in the World.

112 46 FYR Macedonia
127 47 Luxembourg
127 48 Kazakhstan
155 49 Malta
172 50 Liechtenstein
179 51 Faroe Islands
203 52 Andorra
208 53 San Marino

There are some obvious no hopers there but it was not as cut and dried as I thought it would be. The really gash teams are just a handful.

 

[jimbob5]

Wait so you don't want summer football played and you don't want international breaks? Do you just want more space between international breaks? I imagine the reason international breaks are scheduled now are due to fixture congestion after Christmas. For example there's another one in November and then only two (one in March and one in June) before we get around to next season.

I don't want domestic football being played in Summer i.e. June, July and August as has been suggested by some. It might work in Rugby League or presumably they would not do it, but not football please. Incidentally, one has to be careful what they say on a forum because you can guarantee that those not ignoring you will ignore the spirit of your point and lurch at any minor points you might have got wrong.

 

[withdeanwombat]

International breaks are rubbish. It's like being beamed back to summer but without the sunshine, warmth and cricket. Really, unless they are your country, who wants to see Leichstenstein play Spain, or Kazakhstan play anybody.

Internationals used to be played on Wednesdays and the weekend games carried on as usual. I know somebody's bound to say that our teams are now multinational and some players have to travel halfway around the globe for a friendly in Tokyo, or Lhasa, or someplace, but so what ? Even our biggest teams - especially our biggest teams - should have the staff to cope .

A lot of supporters don't give a ratsbum about internationals in any case, and perhaps they could all be scheduled pre and post season so that Wembley can be paid for and Skypundits can continue to spout the usual ballhooks.

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If the Euro qualifying groups were made up of 4 teams instead of 6, then we wouldn't need so many cuffing International breaks and double-header fixtures all the time to plough through this turgid qualifying process. All the groups are chock-full of pointless, hopeless flotsum like San Marino, Faroe Islands and Gibralter - these nations should have a pre-qualifying round before they even get a SNIFF of going into a group stage. Instead, we have to keep suspending our Leagues 3 times before Chrimbo just to watch yet another enthralling spectacle of a bunch of part-timers getting whupped again by the pros. Still, more TV rights to sell I suppose.

Well done Platini, bravo.

Can't argue with that, it's even more pointless now as there is absolutely no chance a big team won't qualify, at worse they will be third and have a play off against a Estonia/Latvia.


I don't blame clubs for pulling players, I would be livid if lloris got injured playing against San Marino

 

[Kinky Gerbil]

If we're now stuck with the newly expanded 24 team Euro Finals now instead of 16 (which is another complete and utter nonsense, but thats another argument), then you can have 11 groups of 4. Top 2 go through, plus one best 3rd place to give you 23 qualifiers, plus the hosts.

Everyone just plays 6 qualifiers instead of 10. Thats 2 less international breaks (if we're sticking with the double-headers), and a qualifying process with far less margin for error and hence more "edge" than the current snoozefest.

[edit]
11 groups, so (up to) 22 minnows have a pre-group qualifying playoff to be the 4th team in each group, or the 4th place in each group is already filled by the ones above the required ranking.

I would also have the non qualifying teams playing in a second division of games, give them a chance to improve

 

[halbpro]

I don't want domestic football being played in Summer i.e. June, July and August as has been suggested by some. It might work in Rugby League or presumably they would not do it, but not football please. Incidentally, one has to be careful what they say on a forum because you can guarantee that those not ignoring you will ignore the spirit of your point and lurch at any minor points you might have got wrong.

I wasn't trying to "lurch" at anything, just to understand what you meant. I agree, domestic football in the summer (beyond friendlies) is rubbish.

 

[jimbob5]

I wasn't trying to "lurch" at anything, just to understand what you meant. I agree, domestic football in the summer (beyond friendlies) is rubbish.

Sure. That was just a general point on the lurching. On reflection couple of 'international breaks' during the season is not the worse idea. It's just a tad hard to miss my domestic fix. I've hit a bit of a wall. 5 long days to go! Ahhhrr!