Interesting take on the riots...

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trueblue

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2003
10,954
Hove
Can't say I'd ever expected to read an article like this in the Daily Telegraph. For those like the moronic woman looting on Sky last night to 'get something back for her taxes', the growing gulf between the richest and the poorest made this inevitable at some point. While they should get tough with everyone involved (Army boot camps would be better than prison IMHO - why just foster their lazy criminal tendencies?) , maybe their needs to be a serious reassessment too of the obscene profits the big companies are making at our expense and the gigantic bonuses being paid to the MPs' mates in big business. There are plenty of people taking something for nothing at that level too (or, more accurately, grossly disproportionate rewards).


London's rioters are the products of a crumbling nation, and an indifferent political class that has turned its back on them.

No one seemed surprised. Not the hooded teenagers fleeing home at dawn. Not Ken and Tony, who used to live in Tottenham and had returned to stand vigil over the missiles and torched cars littering an urban war zone. Tony claimed to have seen the whole thing coming. “This was always going to happen,” he said.

The police shot a black guy in suspicious circumstances. Feral kids with no jobs ran amok. To Tony’s mind, this was a riot waiting for an excuse. In the hangover of the violence that spread through London, the uprisings seemed both inevitable and unthinkable. Over a few days in which attacks became a contagion the capital city of an advanced nation has reverted to a Hobbesian dystopia of chaos and brutality.

“In the evening there is fear, and in the morning they are gone. This is the fate of those who take our goods, and the reward of those who violently take our property.” Isaiah 17:14. No such Old Testament fate awaited the pillagers of N18, strolling away from 21st-century megastores with a looted haul of iPod accessories and designer trainers.

This is the most arcane of uprisings and the most modern. Its participants, marshalled by Twitter, are protagonists in a sinister flipside to the Arab Spring. The Tottenham summer, featuring children as young as seven, is an assault not on a regime of tyranny but on the established order of a benign democracy. One question now hangs over London’s battle-torn high streets. How could this ever happen?

Among several obvious answers, one is a failure of policing. The evidence so far points to more ignominy for the rudderless Met, as doubts emerge over whether Mark Duggan, whose death inspired the initial riots, fired at police. The stonewalling of Mr Duggan’s family precipitated the crisis, and the absence of officers to intervene in an orgy of looting led to a breakdown of order suggestive of the lawless badlands of a failing state.

The second alleged culprit is ethnicity. But, as David Lammy, Tottenham’s MP, has said, these are no race riots. The Eighties uprisings at Broadwater Farm, as in Toxteth and Brixton, were products, in part, of a poisonous racism absent in today’s Tottenham, where the Chinese grocery, the Turkish store and the African hairdresser’s sit side by side.

So blame unemployment and the cuts. It is true that Tottenham is among London’s poorest boroughs, with 10,000 people claiming jobseeker’s allowance and 54 applicants chasing every registered job vacancy. In other affected boroughs, such as Hackney, youth clubs are closing. Unwise as such pruning may be, it would be facile to suggest that homes and businesses have been laid waste for want of ping-pong tournaments and skateboard parks.

The real causes are more insidious. It is no coincidence that the worst violence London has seen in many decades takes place against the backdrop of a global economy poised for freefall. The causes of recession set out by J K Galbraith in his book, The Great Crash 1929, were as follows: bad income distribution, a business sector engaged in “corporate larceny”, a weak banking structure and an import/export imbalance.

All those factors are again in play. In the bubble of the 1920s, the top 5 per cent of earners creamed off one-third of personal income. Today, Britain is less equal, in wages, wealth and life chances, than at any time since then. Last year alone, the combined fortunes of the 1,000 richest people in Britain rose by 30 per cent to £333.5 billion.

Europe’s leaders, our own Prime Minister and Chancellor included, were parked on sun-loungers as London burned. Although the epicentre of the immediate economic crisis is the eurozone, successive British governments have colluded in incubating the poverty, the inequality and the inhumanity now exacerbated by financial turmoil.

Britain’s lack of growth is not an economic debating point or a stick with which to beat George Osborne, any more than our deskilled, demotivated, under-educated non-workforce is simply a blot on the national balance sheet. Watch the juvenile wrecking crews on the city streets and weep for all our futures. The “lost generation” is mustering for war.

This is not a cri de coeur for the failed and failing. Nor is it a lament for the impoverished. Mob violence, despicable and inexcusable, must always be condemned. But those terrorising and trashing London are also a symptom of a wider malaise. In uneasy societies, people power – whether offered or stolen – can be toxic. Most of the 53 per cent of e‑democrats calling to have the death penalty reinstated (of whom 8 per cent would opt for firing squad or gas chamber) would never dream of torching a police car, but their impulses hardly cohere either with David Cameron’s utopian ambitions.

What price the Big Society as Tottenham, the most solid of communities, lies in ruins? The notion that small-state Britain can be run along the lines of Ambridge parish council by good-hearted, if under-funded, volunteers has never seemed more doubtful. Nor can Ed Miliband take much credit for his unvaried focus on the “squeezed middle”, rather than on a vote-losing underclass that politicians ignore at their peril, and at ours.

London’s riots are not the Tupperware troubles of Greece or Spain, where the middle classes lash out against their day of reckoning. They are the proof that a section of young Britain – the stabbers, shooters, looters, chancers and their frightened acolytes – has fallen off the cliff-edge of a crumbling nation.

The failure of the markets goes hand in hand with human blight. Meanwhile, the view is gaining ground that social democracy, with its safety nets, its costly education and health care for all, is unsustainable in the bleak times ahead. The reality is that it is the only solution. After the Great Crash, Britain recalibrated, for a time. Income differentials fell, the welfare state was born and skills and growth increased.

That exact model is not replicable, but nor, as Adam Smith recognised, can a well-ordered society ever develop when a sizeable number of its members are miserable and, as a consequence, dangerous. This is not a gospel of determinism, for poverty does not ordain lawlessness. Nor, however, is it sufficient to heap contempt on the rioters as if they are a pariah caste.

One of the most tragic aspects of London’s meltdowns is that we need this ruined generation if Britain is ever to feel prosperous and safe again. If there are no jobs for today’s malcontents and no means to exploit their skills, then the UK is in graver trouble than it thinks. Mr Osborne may congratulate himself on his prudence, but retrenchment also bears a social cost. We are seeing just how steep that price may be.

Financial crashes and human catastrophes are cyclical. Each reoccurrence threatens to be graver than the last. As Galbraith wrote, “memory is far better than the law” in protecting against financial illusion and insanity. In an age of austerity, there are diverse luxuries that Britain can no longer afford. Amnesia stands high on that long list.
 




Kumquat

New member
Mar 2, 2009
4,459
spot on in my book - what I was trying to say in other posts but this obviously a thousand times more eloquent - as you say, bit of a surprise to see it in the Telegraph as well.
 




pork pie

New member
Dec 27, 2008
6,053
Pork pie land.
It is not really a surprise. It just goes to show how liberal our whole society has become. Hopefully, this will be the catalyst for the voters of the UK to say enough is enough and demand an end to all this madness.

We need to give the police the authority to deal with these scum, without the fear that c unts like Amnesty etc. will cause a load of fuss over it. If anyone is involves in these riots - they should be fair game for anything that happens to them - including if they die.
 






The Large One

Who's Next?
Jul 7, 2003
52,343
97.2FM
It is not really a surprise. It just goes to show how liberal our whole society has become. Hopefully, this will be the catalyst for the voters of the UK to say enough is enough and demand an end to all this madness.

We need to give the police the authority to deal with these scum, without the fear that c unts like Amnesty etc. will cause a load of fuss over it. If anyone is involves in these riots - they should be fair game for anything that happens to them - including if they die.

Yes, that will quieten things down...
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,014
usuall load of poor little lambs. lack of self responsibility is the root cause. these rioters, these gangs, are not going to youth clubs. they arent bothered that a CEO gets paid £2million bonus. they lack education and social morals, with parents that blame and defer responibility to authorities, and authorities that are given a new target or mission every other year, but with a philosophy of soft touch, dont upset anyone or anything along the way. most of the "underclass" are there because they cant be arsed to do anything better.
 








Pantani

Il Pirata
Dec 3, 2008
5,445
Newcastle
Superb article. Pork Pie, liberalism is not the problem it is the political establishments continual focus rhetorically with the middle classes and in terms of policy with the rich. When you have a sizeable underclass who feel no one is listening to them they will behave in this manner. Just so you do not label as a bed wetting liberal, I would like to point out that I think that the police should have reacted with more force than they did, and that the army should have been called in last night.
 






Arthur

Well-known member
Jul 8, 2003
8,760
Buxted Harbour
usuall load of poor little lambs. lack of self responsibility is the root cause. these rioters, these gangs, are not going to youth clubs. they arent bothered that a CEO gets paid £2million bonus. they lack education and social morals, with parents that blame and defer responibility to authorities, and authorities that are given a new target or mission every other year, but with a philosophy of soft touch, dont upset anyone or anything along the way. most of the "underclass" are there because they cant be arsed to do anything better.

Spot on! They are lawless fucks that do not give a shit about anyone or anything.

Judging by the age of allot of the kids who were on the rampage in Clapham last night they have no right to play the "life has dealt me a bad hand" crap because they have hardly lived any of their life yet. You make your own luck in this world and you do that by hard work not by turning your local neighborhood into a war zone!
 




Simster

"the man's an arse"
Jul 7, 2003
54,952
Surrey
what he is saying is...

so doing nothing to the protestors is helping quieting things down? fatboy.
But pork pie also reckons Amnesty International are "cünts", apparently. That sort of nonsense is not going to illicit a tolerant response from a good number of people.
 




jimhigham

Je Suis Rhino
Apr 25, 2009
8,035
Woking
You're right. That is all the more disquieting coming from the Telegraph. Very good piece. Very worrying times.
 




Munkfish

Well-known member
May 1, 2006
12,089
But pork pie also reckons Amnesty International are "cünts", apparently. That sort of nonsense is not going to illicit a tolerant response from a good number of people.

Im Not agreeing with Pork Pie, i was just helping TLO understand the question being put to him.

I really didnt think it was that hard to work out, if he couldnt work that out, i dont think he should even try and understand what is going on at the moment.

The Youth dont speak proper Init.
 


Certainly an interesting article, rasing some valid points. I do, however, agree with the notion of individual responsibilty. No one is forcing them to go out looting. Crowd dynamics/herd mentality plays a part, but they are actively going out and taking an opportunistic chance as nicking stuff whilst the police are under resourced. Scum they may be, stupid they're not.
 




Scotty Mac

New member
Jul 13, 2003
24,405
Spot on! They are lawless fucks that do not give a shit about anyone or anything.

Judging by the age of allot of the kids who were on the rampage in Clapham last night they have no right to play the "life has dealt me a bad hand" crap because they have hardly lived any of their life yet. You make your own luck in this world and you do that by hard work not by turning your local neighborhood into a war zone!

this
 


Mammoth

Kickin' back
Jan 28, 2011
285
Manchester Ship Canal
It is not really a surprise. It just goes to show how liberal our whole society has become. Hopefully, this will be the catalyst for the voters of the UK to say enough is enough and demand an end to all this madness.

We need to give the police the authority to deal with these scum, without the fear that c unts like Amnesty etc. will cause a load of fuss over it. If anyone is involves in these riots - they should be fair game for anything that happens to them - including if they die.

Because campaigning against state sponsored torture isn't worthwhile? I can introduce you to some south americans in hammersmith who's relatives disapeared in the 70's and 80's. They were probably dropped from a helicopter into the ocean while still alive. So campaigning against that makes you a ****.
I think you will find Amnesty aren't that bothered about robust policing in a liberal democracy.
 


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