Interesting comment from CMS on style of football

[Stevegull]

We were 6-1 down with 5 minutes to go... I think the rest of them had had enough by then.

Fair enough but I feel it is representive of a number of times this season when we have not supported forwards.

I thought we were still in with a shout at that stage.

 

[WSU Dilettante]

Despite the result, I think Derby are over-rated*. I think the Albion defence is zonal and the other side are allowed to run with the ball. Derby have a man-to-man defence which means that are pass to feet does not work so much but a pass into space should work, if we had someone to pass into space. if in the unlikely event the opposition get around our full backs we are in bad trouble. With Ward and Bruno they don't. With Calderon and Chicksen they do. (*QPR will beat them in the Final.)

Newcastle played man-to-man against Liverpool and Liverpool did the same thing as Albion did against Derby at home. It worked for 20 minutes for us against Derby. It took two accurate balls from Gerrard to beat Newcastle.

I would like to see us play the Liverpool system. Lualua in the Suarez role (not Lingard). We do not really need and out and out target man like Ulloa unless he can learn some more close control skills?? Buckley/March can play the Sterling role.


Ideally the middle player would be a Lucas type (Dale Stephens?). Orlandi is the best equivalent to Gerrard.

Are you high?

Orlandi is like Gerrard? Lua Lua play like Suarez? Their style of play is completely different, KLL likes the ball to feet, stand the defenders up and take them on. He slows them down and then beats them with an explosion of pace. Suarez likes to keep it moving, he's more fluid. Orlandi is nothing like Gerrard. Not even a little bit. He can't tackle, inconsistent with his delivery of the ball, he's weak on the ball (which also seems to be a problem for Lingard and JFC too), he barely even has a shot on goal.

Have you even seen Ulloa's close control? I think it's rather good.

As for Derby being overrated, I don't think thy are. They have strong and pacey players, they get forward (and defend) in numbers. As someone else has said on here their first touch seems to be incredible. And they are free scoring. The table doesn't lie, top scoring team in the league.

 

[Machiavelli]

Are you high?

Orlandi is like Gerrard? Lua Lua play like Suarez? Their style of play is completely different, KLL likes the ball to feet, stand the defenders up and take them on. He slows them down and then beats them with an explosion of pace. Suarez likes to keep it moving, he's more fluid. Orlandi is nothing like Gerrard. Not even a little bit. He can't tackle, inconsistent with his delivery of the ball, he's weak on the ball (which also seems to be a problem for Lingard and JFC too), he barely even has a shot on goal.

Have you even seen Ulloa's close control? I think it's rather good.

As for Derby being overrated, I don't think thy are. They have strong and pacey players, they get forward (and defend) in numbers. As someone else has said on here their first touch seems to be incredible. And they are free scoring. The table doesn't lie, top scoring team in the league.

Agree with all this.

 

[LamieRobertson]

Are you high?

Orlandi is like Gerrard? Lua Lua play like Suarez? Their style of play is completely different, KLL likes the ball to feet, stand the defenders up and take them on. He slows them down and then beats them with an explosion of pace. Suarez likes to keep it moving, he's more fluid. Orlandi is nothing like Gerrard. Not even a little bit. He can't tackle, inconsistent with his delivery of the ball, he's weak on the ball (which also seems to be a problem for Lingard and JFC too), he barely even has a shot on goal.

Have you even seen Ulloa's close control? I think it's rather good.

As for Derby being overrated, I don't think thy are. They have strong and pacey players, they get forward (and defend) in numbers. As someone else has said on here their first touch seems to be incredible. And they are free scoring. The table doesn't lie, top scoring team in the league.

Add there strength in depth...there 2nd leading scorer is injured and look who they bring in

 

[perseus]

Are you high?

Orlandi is like Gerrard? Lua Lua play like Suarez? Their style of play is completely different, KLL likes the ball to feet, stand the defenders up and take them on. He slows them down and then beats them with an explosion of pace. Suarez likes to keep it moving, he's more fluid. Orlandi is nothing like Gerrard. Not even a little bit. He can't tackle, inconsistent with his delivery of the ball, he's weak on the ball (which also seems to be a problem for Lingard and JFC too), he barely even has a shot on goal.

Have you even seen Ulloa's close control? I think it's rather good.

As for Derby being overrated, I don't think thy are. They have strong and pacey players, they get forward (and defend) in numbers. As someone else has said on here their first touch seems to be incredible. And they are free scoring. The table doesn't lie, top scoring team in the league.

Perhaps,not like Suarez, more like Peter Ward. Only notional comparisons. Maybe Macca is more fluid comparison. He certainly runs around a lot.

Ulloa is more like Michael Robinson of old who scored freely in the top flight. Close control not his strong point, but he could manage it sometimes.

Perhaps, my main point is that that we do not need new players (except when they are getting too old) but a pre-season training plan to get them up to scratch. We have not had time this last season. It is arguable a lot of our players are a bit specialist, not complete players as demanded by "total football". I noted that Will Buckley was getting more involved in build up play and Lualua as well (made the goal against Forest).

I think Macca is better played deeper as a second striker. He is better at making a pass than receiving one.

Derby rectified their mistakes at the Amex when their first touch was only good in patches. Lingard had a good first half at Derby but McClaren sussed it and he hardly had a kick second half.

Orlandi might not be any good at crossing the ball, but he is the best we have got? That's why he takes the corners, all eleven at home and none of them were any good.

I thought Russell was the real dangerous player that Derby had, more so at the Amex.

 

[perseus]

mc claren did not play 4 4. 2 in the playoffs
hughes was one of 3 in the middle
two wide attackers and Martin in the centre
it was clearly 4 3 3
not saying there is one correct formation
whatever works
but derby like many others (Bayern Munich Barcelona Real Madrid )
have shown you can score a lot of goals playing with one central attacker
but yes a gifted central midfielder and wide players who can score
are required

Arguable, but not worth the point as ideally 4-4-2 can quickly transform to 4-3-3 especially in the counter-attack. No point having four in the counter attack as the extra man can slow the attack down. Two banks of four are quite good at defending.

What Derby were dangerous at was the ball received at feet in or near the box. My point is Lualua looks technically able to do that. If he doesn't dive he has the presence to keep hold of the ball and he can shoot. Russell got nine goals and missed lots of games through injury.

 

[fat old seagull]

Derby are some way ahead of us not only in terms of personnel but also by system. The players they have are quick and tenacious and most importantly play the system that's suits those skills.
We have similar players who are quick and skilful Buckley, Lualua, CMS and March. We seldom get two of those guys playing at the same time and when they do play they get little of the ball whilst it's being shuffled around in the rear. When it gets forward it's seldom on a break rather than being filtered forward against a packed defence.
Sorry to those this will upset ...too bad. To me Leo is not versatile enough, gone are the days of a Nat Lofthouse target man. Somebody wants to pay 6.5 mill ? I'd eat their hands off for something less than that. In contrast, despite unreasonably being pensive on his arrival I was disappointed to lose Conway. And why did we let Elphick go to Bournemouth.

Now we have a Deju Vu as Oscar does his version of a Gus Poyet impersonation. .? But through it all I'm still optimistic it will get sorted.

 

[Tony Meolas Loan Spell]

Basically another problem is when the opp were attacking there were four sometimes five players in out box. When we attack one or two.

Thats the problem right there.

 

[wunt be druv]

I think CMS is spot on.Every time we break forwards we seem to get to the edge of the area then stop,the ball then goes back,then to the side again,back to the middle,then to the side,by which time the opposition has ambled back and have ten players against our one in the penalty area.We spend so much time going side ways we should re-name ourselves the Crabs!

 

[dingodan]

Very good observation.

It's so frustrating when we go backwards, we should have a rule. I'm sure I heard that we had a rule about one touch passing, and winning back possession. How about a pass forward whenever possible rule too?

I swear, during the Derby game I heard one of our players yelp "please don't tackle me, leave me alone, I only want a bit of space, why won't you just let me play?".

We need to man up, frankly.

 

[Giraffe]

I remember we had a corner once, we played it short, we then played it to Andrews who played it wide to Bruno, who then played it to a retreating Greer who played it to a now running back full tilt Upson who played it to Ward who played it back to PIG. So from a corner our keeper now had the ball. From memory he then hoofed it up the pitch in an aimless attempt to get Ulloa to win a header like he does 5% of the time.

 

[Biscuit]

Poyet not playing two upfront was daft. Ulloa and CMS as a starting line up would be STONKING.

 

[Not Andy Naylor]

Fashion is for a main striker and a second striker that sometimes has to go deep. With just the one wide player and an overlapping full back.

I still think the basic shape of most teams is 4-4-2 or 4-3-3. Derby under Clough was 4-3-3 and under McClaren was 4-4-2.

Funny, because Derby's Chris Martin is under the impression that he has been playing as the central striker in a three since McClaren arrived and changed his role. But what does he know?

 

[tamworthram]

Also fair to make the point that Derby have a free-scoring midfielder in Bryson who has contributed very significantly to their season.

We had that too in Crofts who was at the peak of his form when he got his injury. I remember sensing at the moment he went off it could be a massive blow for not only the player but the club, and he was badly missed.

Don't forget Bryson (our player of the year and player of the year for 2 out of of last 3 seasons) wasn't playing yesterday due to injury. When I heard the news I was somewhat concerned as he is the engine room for our midfield and not as lightweight as Hughes.

I guess your guys just weren't at the races yesterday and perhaps it was a step too far this year. I reckon you'll do fine next season (good luck). Let's hope we go up (and stay up !) and you join us next year.

 

[mikeyjh]

Funny, because Derby's Chris Martin is under the impression that he has been playing as the central striker in a three since McClaren arrived and changed his role. But what does he know?

Correct, I find the suggestion that we're playing any sort of 442 as really odd....