Insulate Britain protests

[A1X]

There is a difference between being inconvenienced and critically injured or trapped people needlessly waiting for an ambulance or fire appliance that is stuck in gridlocked traffic traffic in Waltham Abbey and can't even get out of the station.

The moment motorways are blocked now, modern sat navs merrily divert people off into the surrounding areas no matter how unsuitable they are for high volume traffic and they become completely gridlocked in no time. I imagine this is the intention of the protesters but for me there is a line to be drawn between inconveniencing people and putting others at direct risk through your actions.

Right, so are we also banning protests in central London in case an ambulance or fire engine needs to travel down Whitehall?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

There will be people trying to make job interviews for their first shot at a job in ages; people trying to get their kids to hospital appointments for vital treatment; surgeons waiting for organ transplants or blood supplies to arrive - not to mention all of the other ordinary and extraordinary delays. When the M25 is screwed, the knock-on effects reach right into the home counties and outer London, impacting ambulance, police and fire response times - plus nurses, doctors and teachers etc trying to get to work. Yes, I realise that we are facing a climate emergency, but people in trying to get to hospital for an appointment or relying on a 999 response shouldn't be regarded as collateral damage.

Oh well, just a bit of inconvenience we are told…..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s/mum-paralysed-stroke-after-m25-25015653.amp

Mum paralysed by stroke after M25 protest delayed trip to hospital by six hours

 

[Bry Nylon]

Right, so are we also banning protests in central London in case an ambulance or fire engine needs to travel down Whitehall?

In most cases, protests in central London are planned and sanctioned and the LFB and ambulance service have the opportunity to redeploy assets and implement well-rehearsed plans to ensure cover isn't compromised (so far as possible).

What is far more difficult to manage from an emergency services point of view is people suddenly deciding to block the M25 with no prior warning of time, place or duration. No problem with protests - but the way these are being carried out are needlessly putting people at risk.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

Non annoying, low key protects have gone on for years and they've made no difference whatsoever. In fact, things have got much worse.

Placards outside Westminster just doesn't work.

 

[PFW]

I thought they were protesting up here in Norfolk yesterday morning, the B1111 had a traffic jam, of 3 cars. but as the road cleared it turned out to be a tractor had a puncture.

 

[Mellotron]

Really quite torn by it. Sympathetic to the protesters' cause but also to those caught up in it.

I'm guessing there's a reason they aren't but would it not be possible to gridlock Parliament instead? That's the place in the UK where there's some power to make an actual difference.

 

[A1X]

Oh well, just a bit of inconvenience we are told…..

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....s/mum-paralysed-stroke-after-m25-25015653.amp

Mum paralysed by stroke after M25 protest delayed trip to hospital by six hours

That's absolutely tragic, but it's also clearly not the intended aim of the protestors. Are we all to be held accountable for the indirect results of our actions now?

It used to be the case that when there was a traffic jam (which happened all the time even before these protestors rocked up BTW) the emergency services could use the hard shoulder. A hard shoulder which no longer exists. I bet that fact doesn't get examined and it's easier to just point and say "bad evil protest scum".

 

[KeegansHairPiece]

In most cases, protests in central London are planned and sanctioned and the LFB and ambulance service have the opportunity to redeploy assets and implement well-rehearsed plans to ensure cover isn't compromised (so far as possible).

What is far more difficult to manage from an emergency services point of view is people suddenly deciding to block the M25 with no prior warning of time, place or duration. No problem with protests - but the way these are being carried out are needlessly putting people at risk.

A lack of inaction has made people feel desperate. I was at uni in 92-95 and it was a big deal that we needed to act then. Suddenly we're in 2021 and politically we're still putting band aids over gaping wounds. Does anyone think a standard centre of London protest is going to shift current policy and thinking? Protests that are born of desperation, think the suffragettes, civil rights etc. carry the weight of history. I remember going on the anti-war march against invading Iraq, organised peacefully through central London a seemingly unprecedented number of people and show of public opinion - did it make a blind bit of difference no. Inconvenience is a powerful force. Desperation to protect the planet's future feels like a battle that is well beyond placards and peaceful walks through town.

 

[JC Footy Genius]

Don't send the police, just let the motorists who have been stuck in the traffic jam they created sort things out. The protests will soon stop.

Commuters in London showed the way .. direct action begets direct action.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[Simster]

That's absolutely tragic, but it's also clearly not the intended aim of the protestors. Are we all to be held accountable for the indirect results of our actions now?

It used to be the case that when there was a traffic jam (which happened all the time even before these protestors rocked up BTW) the emergency services could use the hard shoulder. A hard shoulder which no longer exists. I bet that fact doesn't get examined and it's easier to just point and say "bad evil protest scum".

This was the point I was going to make. Isn't there a hard shoulder on the M25 for this sort of thing?

 

[Billy the Fish]

Non annoying, low key protects have gone on for years and they've made no difference whatsoever. In fact, things have got much worse.

Placards outside Westminster just doesn't work.

But blocking the M25 does work?

 

[beorhthelm]

trouble with this approach to protesting is that it doesnt have the desired outcome. they want people to say this problem is terrible, do something about it, instead they say the protest is terrible, do something about it. so we'll end up with some new laws on protest management.

what needs to happen is protesters linking to a clear strategy for resolution. they wont because they conflict with each other and want a perfect solution that solves everything without impact. they wont compromise one ideal for another to achieve a net beneficial outcome.

 

[Nobby Cybergoat]

But blocking the M25 does work?

Given the stakes, the protesters have to try something.

 

[usernamed]

Their actions are incredibly annoying.

You know what else is incredibly annoying? That beeping noise you get in smoke alarms when the battery is dying. Do you know why it is annoying? Because it makes you do something about it.

Same principle applies.

I have partial agreement with this.

However, in the same way that some people simply remove the battery from their about to fail smoke alarm and put the smoke alarm in a drawer, forcing individuals into action does not necessarily mean that people will take the desired action.

Someone is likely to end up with real injuries as a result of these protests when somebody’s temper finally snaps, and as others have mentioned, the collateral damage is huge (and incredibly environmentally damaging) losing the group any environmental credibility.

Nobody caught up in such protests is more likely to lobby the government to implement sane building insulation policies. The more vindictive, upon getting home, probably switched on the heating and opened all the doors and windows. (At least until they saw the news re: energy prices)


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[Neville's Breakfast]

That's absolutely tragic, but it's also clearly not the intended aim of the protestors. Are we all to be held accountable for the indirect results of our actions now?

It used to be the case that when there was a traffic jam (which happened all the time even before these protestors rocked up BTW) the emergency services could use the hard shoulder. A hard shoulder which no longer exists. I bet that fact doesn't get examined and it's easier to just point and say "bad evil protest scum".

Well, I suppose that depends upon whether you think deliberately creating vast traffic jams is an ‘indirect result’ or not.

 

[Billy the Fish]

Given the stakes, the protesters have to try something.

Do they really though?

It all seems a bit arbitrary, a bit futile.

There's been home insulation schemes in place for the last decade, low carbon hearing is getting a foothold in the market and had boilers are due to be phased out. As far as I can tell they want it to happen a bit faster.

 

[beorhthelm]

thinking about it, the protesters would achieve stated aim better if they trained as insulation fitters and volunteered to do work.

 

[martin tyler]

Their actions are incredibly annoying.

You know what else is incredibly annoying? That beeping noise you get in smoke alarms when the battery is dying. Do you know why it is annoying? Because it makes you do something about it.

Same principle applies.

Are you suggesting we should do something about it and run them over get the motorway moving a bit quicker?

 

[Pavilionaire]

I just wonder whether these protests have had their day. In particular, I feel sorry for the people stuck in the jams sat in their electric cars.

I totally get their message and the seriousness of climate change, but what presses my buttons into action is not climate protestors raising awareness like this but simply seeing on the news the environmental disasters all over the world, or David Attenborough showing me seas full of plastic.

 

[martin tyler]

I fully support their behaviour. Direct action is the only thing that will work now. As it is, it may be too late.

They want homes insulated? Don’t think it is to late for that.
Ironically they are adding to pollution with 5/10 mile traffic jams so maybe they are indirectly helping keep the planet warm so the home insulation’s won’t be needed.