[Albion] Independent Football Ombudsman rules on Albion fan ban and loyalty points deduction

[El Presidente]

If you join the tunnel club you’re allowed to bring in those on banner orders apparently

I joined the tunnel club in Hamburg many years ago but haven’t yet found an appropriate time to mention it to the wife.

 

[dazzer6666]

If you join the tunnel club you’re allowed to bring in those on banner orders apparently

You can bring in a banned fan (or axe murderer etc) on a ST Guest ticket…..no name attached.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Indeed.

But you know if you can't attend the gig or show, because someone is ill or something else comes up, you can sell/gift/whatever the ticket(s) to others.

But, to be clear, I'm not suggesting we should be able to freely do that with our football tickets, per my long post a few pages back, I'm just highlighting why it's less of a problem with gigs and shows.

You don’t have banning orders assigned to gig (as far as I know) either

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

You can bring in a banned fan (or axe murderer etc) on a ST Guest ticket…..no name attached.

Yes, but if you furnish them with real cutlery there’s a greater chance they will behave themselves! Accepting this is the last thing you would want to do in your example!

 

[Horses Arse]

Yes, but if you furnish them with real cutlery there’s a greater chance they will behave themselves! Accepting this is the last thing you would want to do in your example!

Took my old mum to a match in the early days of the Amex, she brought a cheesecake with her.. plus a knife to cut it with. Unbelievable, what a character.

1901 if she goes to another match

Sorry Paul

 

[El Presidente]

You don’t have banning orders assigned to gig (as far as I know) either

You‘ve clearly never seen how feisty it gets at a Barry Manilow gig when they’re fighting to throw their bloomers on stage.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

The entire fanbase does not have fair access to tickets as 1901 members can sort them for their mates without any recourse.

I agree with you about 1901.

 

[El Presidente]

I agree with you about 1901.

Good to see we have some common ground

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Good to see we have some common ground

Well, we also agreed earlier in the thread that you could ignore the result of the Brexit Referendum

 

[ROSM]

Out of interest, did wolves away sell out? I have a feeling it went way beyond the ususal points boundaries and may not have sold out completely. If it didnt then simply taking away the loyalty points here would have put all parties in the same position as they would have been surely?

 

[El Presidente]

Well, we also agreed earlier in the thread that you could ignore the result of the Brexit Referendum

I have been trying, honest!

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Out of interest, did wolves away sell out? I have a feeling it went way beyond the ususal points boundaries and may not have sold out completely. If it didnt then simply taking away the loyalty points here would have put all parties in the same position as they would have been surely?

I think you’re right about it going below usual LP levels. However the club are trying to set a deterrent to unearned accumulation of LP and it appears to be working. This is not about one game. They never said the rules would only apply to certain games as that wouldn’t be as effective in changing behavior.

 

[ROSM]

I think you’re right about it going below usual LP levels. However the club are trying to set a deterrent to unearned accumulation of LP and it appears to be working. This is not about one game. They never said the rules would only apply to certain games as that wouldn’t be as effective in changing behavior.

Nobody is arguing re a deterrent. But there is a number of aspects about this case that are concerning. The gaps in the ticketing system that sends confirmation emails to the purchaser not the ticket owner. The issue over appeal times, the equitable nature of any punishment, actions of one of the attendees in the panel, the action of the panel chair. The wish to punish the person the ticket was bought in the name of, not the purchaser (who asked to be punished) or the intended beneficiary of the 'fraud' and no method of selling back previously sold tickets.

And as i said, all this for a game that didnt sell out (and maybe even went to guest sales)

At the end of the day and independent party who is trained in all these legal, contractual and equitable aspects found that the club acted excessively, had gaps in their scheme and should apologise. They've chosen not to.

 

[Guinness Boy]

I really don't believe more have stopped going than those breaking the rules. As for buying in advance, it's normally about 4 weeks depending on the will of the tv companies! I'm guessing people would buy theatre tickets or gig tickets further in advance than that.

Chelsea went on sale at the same time as Spurs about 6 weeks in advance. I got both as in T1 and knew they’d sell. Literally a week later my wife’s company asked her to be at a meeting in London on the Chelsea Saturday and I couldn’t get a dog and kid sitter.

It’s the only time I’ve not made an away I’ve booked but it happens. An away exchange would have allowed me to put it up to the same points group.

I was also in the “collect from stadium” group. Despite telling supporter services I couldn’t make it my Arsenal tickets haven’t yet turned up so it looks like there’s a naughty step policy,

 

[amexer]

Indeed.

But you know if you can't attend the gig or show, because someone is ill or something else comes up, you can sell/gift/whatever the ticket(s) to others.

But, to be clear, I'm not suggesting we should be able to freely do that with our football tickets, per my long post a few pages back, I'm just highlighting why it's less of a problem with gigs and shows.

Try to get to a Test Match each year and always buy 2 tickets and decide after who I will go with. Have done the same with Rugby and the theatre. My wife is keener on going to concerts than me and always buys 2 tickets. Do find it frustrating can no longer do the same with Albion and get someone to join us without additional expense but we just have to accept that is part of life in PL. I have said before match day tickets are walking out the door to all games which is at the prices is an attraction to club who maybe not concerned if they lose some ST holders.

 

[dazzer6666]

Nobody is arguing re a deterrent. But there is a number of aspects about this case that are concerning. The gaps in the ticketing system that sends confirmation emails to the purchaser not the ticket owner. The issue over appeal times, the equitable nature of any punishment, actions of one of the attendees in the panel, the action of the panel chair. The wish to punish the person the ticket was bought in the name of, not the purchaser (who asked to be punished) or the intended beneficiary of the 'fraud' and no method of selling back previously sold tickets.

And as i said, all this for a game that didnt sell out (and maybe even went to guest sales)

At the end of the day and independent party who is trained in all these legal, contractual and equitable aspects found that the club acted excessively, had gaps in their scheme and should apologise. They've chosen not to.

Good and fair summary.

 

[sully]

I still think an email initially asking for an explanation would “feel” better to a fan who has made a mistake.

If there is a clear pattern of buying tickets and they can’t show by whatever means that this is a one off transgression, then a ban is applied. When I go to away games, I can show that I bought fuel or travel tickets, a pint locally or in the ground, etc. it’s really not hard to spot someone playing the system, surely?
I know this would mean more work for the club, but it would stop them upsetting and disenfranchising people who may have passed on a ticket inappropriately just the once.
In the situation I was close to where bans were handed out, it seemed really petty by the club when a stern warning and explanation of the rules to a first time offender would have had a better outcome and would have been accepted. Obviously, 2 strikes and the sympathy evaporates. The ban handed to the friend and family member whose name was used for the purchase is completely out of order if there is no definite way the club can be sure they were ever aware. Perhaps having to click a link to confirm before the ticket is issued?
The announcement of the clampdown after the Liverpool game was well received and is where the focus should be.

 

[drew]

And you might do exactly the same with a home ticket when they go on sale to STH friends


Also remember that 1901 members can pass on their tickets to whoever they choose

True but I believe you are responsible for the behaviour of your guests so if you sold for away fans or complete strangers and they caused trouble then I assume there would be repercussions.

Maybe. It wasn't my comparison though - I was merely highlighting the difference between gigs and football matches to someone who did use gigs and shows as a comparison, in that the original purchaser does have an avenue to try and ensure the ticket isn't wasted.

You're right, it was my comparison. The point I was trying to make, albeit badly, was about planning ahead. Obviously if you are ill, or a member of your family, it's understandable you'll change your plans but I do find it odd as it seems some will buy a ticket planning to go unless a better offer materialises!!!

 

[drew]

Good to see we have some common ground

Perhaps that is an issue the FAB should be discussing with the club, ie to see if the T & Cs for 1901 will be changed when their tickets next come up for renewal (which I think is every 5 years).

 

[One Teddy Maybank]

Perhaps that is an issue the FAB should be discussing with the club, ie to see if the T & Cs for 1901 will be changed when their tickets next come up for renewal (which I think is every 5 years).

the 1901 benefits have been eroded since day 1 and is different to the original package, so it wouldn’t surprise me.

As per your earlier quote they are responsible for the behaviour of guests, and yes there would be repercussions, as I’ve discussed this already with the club.