[Albion] Independent Football Ombudsman rules on Albion fan ban and loyalty points deduction

[drew]

If only we had a chairman with an army of software developers

Still needs the recipient to read the email!!!

 

[Mr Banana]

It feels like the club will not engage with anything unless there is a profit to be made, even if it’s really bad PR and morally questionable. Sorry if this has been covered but surely the solution is an away ticket exchange providing that for them? No doubt this could be refined - I’m a dunce - but say they take a fiver fee from every away ticket exchanged. The original owner has the points for the game removed and the recipient doesn’t get any points for it. Say this happened for 100 tickets each game over 30 away games in a calendar year = £15k. Surely that would cover the cost of implementing the scheme and the admin each season. Plus fewer empty seats, better ‘customer experience’, fewer ridiculous situations like this etc etc

 

[drew]

I’ve never known a club (or business) put as many barriers to entry in place for their product as our club does. It’s mind blowing.

The simple solution to this is that if you buy a ST and can’t go, you can assign it to someone else by giving the club their details. Those details then get picked up on the system as they go through the barriers, and if the details are different to the ID shown, then there becomes an issue with bans etc. This ensures transparency and safety are at the forefront, but makes the process much easier.

As far as I’m concerned, if I pay for a ticket for a season, I should be able to pass it on without going through the absolute hassle, and often expense, that’s currently in place. I love the club, I just hate how they deal with fans at times.

And therein lies your problem. The season ticket is a contract and is subject to terms and conditions. You might pass it on to a friend or you might tout it to the highest bidder and the club have no control over who is entering their ground, whether it be an away fan or even a banned fan.

 

[drew]

It feels like the club will not engage with anything unless there is a profit to be made, even if it’s really bad PR and morally questionable. Sorry if this has been covered but surely the solution is an away ticket exchange providing that for them? No doubt this could be refined - I’m a dunce - but say they take a fiver fee from every away ticket exchanged. The original owner has the points for the game removed and the recipient doesn’t get any points for it. Say this happened for 100 tickets each game over 30 away games in a calendar year = £15k. Surely that would cover the cost of implementing the scheme and the admin each season. Plus fewer empty seats, better ‘customer experience’, fewer ridiculous situations like this etc etc

You will still get people on the day of the game stating they now can't go and with paper tickets, as someone previously mentioned, it would be almost impossible to resell that ticket. Once digital tickets are the norm then it will become far easier.

 

[Mr Banana]

You will still get people on the day of the game stating they now can't go and with paper tickets, as someone previously mentioned, it would be almost impossible to resell that ticket. Once digital tickets are the norm then it will become far easier.

Yeah. Still feels navigable though, whether it’s people who know each other using the exchange and passing over the paper tickets or fans picking up duplicates at ticket offices, which I wouldn’t imagine would be a massive admin stretch for the number of tickets you’d be talking about. It feels, at worst, like a bit of potential faff for a better overall solution.

 

[El Presidente]

And therein lies your problem. The season ticket is a contract and is subject to terms and conditions. You might pass it on to a friend or you might tout it to the highest bidder and the club have no control over who is entering their ground, whether it be an away fan or even a banned fan.

And you might do exactly the same with a home ticket when they go on sale to STH friends


Also remember that 1901 members can pass on their tickets to whoever they choose

 

[Springal]

Yeah. Still feels navigable though, whether it’s people who know each other using the exchange and passing over the paper tickets or fans picking up duplicates at ticket offices, which I wouldn’t imagine would be a massive admin stretch for the number of tickets you’d be talking about. It feels, at worst, like a bit of potential faff for a better overall solution.

Yes but it makes mockery of the points thing. Let’s say I’m top band, I buy a ticket for every away game knowing I can decide nearer the time if want to or not.

Then the impact is say those in tiers 2 or 3 are denied a proper chance to buy tickets when they go on sale

 

[timbha]

Also remember that 1901 members can pass on their tickets to whoever they choose

Even their away tickets?

 

[El Presidente]

Even their away tickets?

Yes

 

[Mr Banana]

Yes but it makes mockery of the points thing. Let’s say I’m top band, I buy a ticket for every away game knowing I can decide nearer the time if want to or not.

Then the impact is say those in tiers 2 or 3 are denied a proper chance to buy tickets when they go on sale

So returned tickets are made available only to those in the tier they sold out at? Could have Twickets-style email alerts available when tickets are returned

 

[Springal]

So returned tickets are made available only to those in the tier they sold out at? Could have Twickets-style email alerts available when tickets are returned

But then I’ve got to either check or be alerted at random to try and buy one. Again making mockery of the brackets and on sale times.

England fans is run as a ballot, you apply for games, 70% of tickets go to those ‘guaranteed’ with enough points to be in that 70% number, the remaining 30% go in a ballot for the rest. You then have a weekend to buy your ticket. Then any left later go on sale in a ‘fastest finger first’ type system.

You see about 30-50% of applicants who are successful not buy their ticket in the window, so if you just missed out on points it’s tough luck and then you have to get lucky with thousands of others

 

[Mr Banana]

But then I’ve got to either check or be alerted at random to try and buy one. Again making mockery of the brackets and on sale times.

England fans is run as a ballot, you apply for games, 70% of tickets go to those ‘guaranteed’ with enough points to be in that 70% number, the remaining 30% go in a ballot for the rest. You then have a weekend to buy your ticket. Then any left later go on sale in a ‘fastest finger first’ type system.

You see about 30-50% of applicants who are successful not buy their ticket in the window, so if you just missed out on points it’s tough luck and then you have to get lucky with thousands of others

I’ve got lucky and unlucky with my EF membership and I agree with their system because I don’t think that the people who can go all the time should always have complete first dibs. I’m a top-tier Albion thundertit largely because I happen to have flexible hours and no kids, which just makes me luckier rather than more loyal than lots of people I know who aren’t, so I wouldn’t mind more of a luck-based system. But that’s a wider point and I’m meandering tediously

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Yes , and if the club had applied the sanction to him as it should have done it would have been an effective solution would it not ?
My response to your suggestion about your fan a and fan b scenario was to suggest that fan b should not be allowed to buy a ticket in fan a's name if he did not have sufficient points to buy one in his own name thus eliminating that issue .

I think that’s better solved by e mails going out to everyone in whose name a ticket is bought. The club can’t be expected to spend time investigating different cases.
Your second suggestion is fine but it doesn’t eliminate the issue, especially the issue in this thread. In fact if implemented there will be more threads on here complaining the club are being too harsh.

 

[sussex_guy2k2]

And therein lies your problem. The season ticket is a contract and is subject to terms and conditions. You might pass it on to a friend or you might tout it to the highest bidder and the club have no control over who is entering their ground, whether it be an away fan or even a banned fan.

They do. Did you not read the post?

 

[Super Steve Earle]

I'm struggling with the outrage here. Not by any means an apologist for the Albion and I have my own issues with their intransigence. But if I were fan B, I would be furious with my son for his thoughtless stupidity and accept my punishment. We can't choose the rules we adhere to in life or football.

 

[Husty]

I'm struggling with the outrage here. Not by any means an apologist for the Albion and I have my own issues with their intransigence. But if I were fan B, I would be furious with my son for his thoughtless stupidity and accept my punishment. We can't choose the rules we adhere to in life or football.

What about when a set of rules is written out that you adhere to but then the powers that be decide to enforce a different set that they just made up to suit themselves and when challenged on this double down?

Not hard to see what the issue is here is it really?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I'm struggling with the outrage here. Not by any means an apologist for the Albion and I have my own issues with their intransigence. But if I were fan B, I would be furious with my son for his thoughtless stupidity and accept my punishment. We can't choose the rules we adhere to in life or football.

Yep, the family have embarrassed themselves trying to claim the moral high ground when found out trying to cheat the system. If this practice can be stopped then fans lower down the tiers will have a better chance of buying tickets. That’s the end game here.

 

[sully]

What causes them to go on the odd occasion rather than not at all?

So you still go despite being treated so appallingly.

I don’t think the nephew goes at all any more.
His uncle didn’t go for a couple of years, but I begged him to come to a game with me earlier this season because I like going to games with him and he’s now done four this season so may be on the way back.
I keep going because I’ve supported the team for 53 years and keep hoping that this one issue will get skirted rather than the club continuing to get it so wrong. I wasn’t personally sanctioned because I’m more aware of how they’ve been behaving and make sure I don’t fall foul of it.

 

[timbha]

I don’t think the nephew goes at all any more.
His uncle didn’t go for a couple of years, but I begged him to come to a game with me earlier this season because I like going to games with him and he’s now done four this season so may be on the way back.
I keep going because I’ve supported the team for 53 years and keep hoping that this one issue will get skirted rather than the club continuing to get it so wrong. I wasn’t personally sanctioned because I’m more aware of how they’ve been behaving and make sure I don’t fall foul of it.

Thanks. I’m pleased this hasn’t stopped you going, however although the club might have been a bit more lenient, it would be the thin end of the wedge that others would look to exploit or complain of inconsistent treatment in slightly different circumstances.

 

[dsr-burnley]

And therein lies your problem. The season ticket is a contract and is subject to terms and conditions. You might pass it on to a friend or you might tout it to the highest bidder and the club have no control over who is entering their ground, whether it be an away fan or even a banned fan.

That's the problem. If there are no restrictions, then you can lend a friend the season ticket and there is the chance that he or she might like the experience so much that they become regular fans and season ticket holders themselves. (There are 2 season ticket holders at Burnley who can trace their interest to me lending one of them a ticket.) Or you can lend the ticket to random strangers or sell it on.

Clearly Brighton believe the problem of the second sort of transfer is so great that they are willing to stop the first sort of transfer. Because certainly, if I understand the rules correctly, it would cost £50 to lend a ticket to a friend under the club rules (£20 for ticket transfer, £30 registration fee as a supporter) and there is no way my friend would have paid that.

If and when you can't sell out the ground, where will the replacement fans come from?