[Albion] Independent Football Ombudsman rules on Albion fan ban and loyalty points deduction

[Horses Arse]

That kind of thinking is where I think (hope) we end up.
But in the meantime I don't have a problem with the club flexing some muscle, proving it's point, so we can get to a better place quicker.

That's where the differences and interpretation of others experience occur. Those victims of the muscle are understandably upset, the bullies applying it are supported. What that may lead to who knows, but we as a fan base have a particular set of experiences that should encourage us to have a voice in such matters.

Shutting down those voices, suppressing legitimate concern does not lead to a good place generally. Nor does a refusal to accept errors in judgement.

 

[Iggle Piggle]

It is going to be difficult for you to understand a different opinion if you use this type of insult against those with whom you disagree.

Laugh or Burn. Take your pick.

Point being, it doesn't really matter what you are or i think but it matters what the IFO think and the club don't seem to care. They been told to apologise and instead published his name without his consent and told him to do one. It's piss poor behaviour.

 

[Stat Brother]

Laugh or Burn. Take your pick.

Point being, it doesn't really matter what you are or i think but it matters what the IFO think and the club don't seem to care. They been told to apologise and instead published his name without his consent and told him to do one. It's piss poor behaviour.

Very poor indeed.

 

[Horses Arse]

Does being a STH since the 70s, incl Gham qualify me as new?

I find it hard to understand these partial gestures and protests. “ Going not as often as I used to” seems a bit feeble if it is to constitute a protest.

I bet TB and PB are livid with the ombudsman’s decision when the main intention of controlling tickets is to prevent people causing trouble and/or profiteering.

An earlier thread complained that PB had called us customers. Are you ok with that now?

I don't think it is a protest or a gesture. Its a gut feel to being kicked in the bollocks.

I bet they are livid too, how dare someone suggest that all they do is not perfect.

It should never have got to such levels, if some empathy had been applied then no one would be aware, no one would be calling out such draconian behaviour.

Oh, hang on. Maybe that's the point? High profile muscle flexing examples makes everyone think twice. Do you know what? Let's leave that seat empty.

Effective in doubling down on the rules but are you happy with such an approach? Does that fit your ethos?

Oh yes, re customers. I always saw that as a positive from Barber. We should be treated as customers, valued, retained, every effort to make us keep coming back. The problem is that we are not treated that way. If we were, this thread would not exist. We are treated like addicts, as we are. I thought that was the point Barber was trying to make originally, but I was wrong.

 

[dejavuatbtn]

Barber isn’t a fan and Bloom is and this sort of shows it. I am surprised just how much Bloom allows Barber to break its relationship with its fan base in the name of total control. It’s really sad that things like this are being allowed to happen.

 

[drew]

Barber isn’t a fan and Bloom is and this sort of shows it. I am surprised just how much Bloom allows Barber to break its relationship with its fan base in the name of total control. It’s really sad that things like this are being allowed to happen.

I guess you're making the assumption that Bloom is completely unaware of this case.

 

[Springal]

I guess you're making the assumption that Bloom is completely unaware of this case.

And been unaware for years of Barbers behaviour along with the rest of the board all while promoting him and giving him big pay rises

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

Barber isn’t a fan and Bloom is and this sort of shows it. I am surprised just how much Bloom allows Barber to break its relationship with its fan base in the name of total control. It’s really sad that things like this are being allowed to happen.

How do you know Bloom isn’t supportive of the stance? Would your
View change if he was?

Not everything sits at Paul Barbers door believe it or not

This sort of thing based on PR
will be discussed at an Exco and probably will be escalated to board members

 

[drew]

If it isn’t set up as a statutory body then it can be ignored I guess. To take an example currently much in the news it’s a bit like independent pay review bodies for public sector workers that are ignored when they make a finding that doesn’t suit.

Pretty certain any ombudsman for any industry isn't binding on both parties.

 

[drew]

Whatever way you look at it, somebody (irrelevant if they are related or not) acquired a ticket before they were entitled to it (it went to general sale later but not at the time)

The dad has to take some responsibility as his login credentials were shared with his son (to act)

The son shouldn’t have bought the tickets (if he’s not mature enough to understand the rules and sanctions then he shouldn’t have access to the dads account)

There’s no way of proving how much the dad was in the know about the whole episode for sure so the clubs taken the worse case scenario at a time where there was a widespread issue with tickets

The proceeds (email confirmations to relevant parties) needs to be improved, as do the terms and conditions relating to minors acting / that’s on the club

In the greater scheme of things it will make people think twice but accept it’s harsh on the dad (if he genuinely didn’t know)

It’s not clear exactly what happened and it never will be but he’s served the ban, give him back his loyalty points and move on, he’s not going to do it again is he!

Not entirely sure that's accurate. Didn't the son purchase through his own account using friends and family?

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

I suggest you read the whole IFO report. Some of the wording alluded to the club being intransigent and unreasonable on this topic.

And they are entitled to that opinion.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Laugh or Burn. Take your pick.

Point being, it doesn't really matter what you are or i think but it matters what the IFO think and the club don't seem to care. They been told to apologise and instead published his name without his consent and told him to do one. It's piss poor behaviour.

Only if you aren’t aware their opinion is non binding.

 

[Bozza]

Stepping back from this individual case for a minute, there are a couple of problems that are tricky to solve and put the club in a difficult spot when it comes to ticketing, particularly for high-demand away fixtures.

There was a problem whereby people would maintain/enhance their position in the loyalty scheme by buying tickets for games they had no intention of attending, and giving the ticket to someone with lower ticket-buying priority to use. The fan who buys the ticket "wins" as he accrues the loyalty points. The fan who uses the ticket "wins" because he gets to attend a game he'd otherwise miss out on. The Albion fanbase, as a whole, lose because access to tickets becomes a bit of a closed shop, making it increasingly difficult for others to enhance their own chances of legitimately obtaining tickets to in-demand games.

Trying to prevent this closed shop, and making the system more fair for everyone is clearly laudable and benefits everyone in the long-term.

Unfortunately, the vagaries of life mean there will always be people who buy a ticket but, come match day, are unable to attend. And that's where the problems come in...

1. Most away games involve paper tickets which make the logistics of returning a ticket for subsequent re-issue to another qualified fan difficult, if not impossible in short timescales. It looks to me that host clubs typically provide a fixed supply of pre-printed tickets, so it wouldn't be a case of being able to cancel the ticket and generate another one, saving the need to physically return the ticket and redistribute it to another fan.

2. It just doesn't feel right that the correct course of action for when a fan can't attend a game is to just leave that seat empty. The Premier League is the most watched league in the world and we are highly fortunate to be watching one of the best teams in that league. Surely a seat is better used by a fan than left empty, right?

The problem here comes that there is no way for the club to distinguish between:

"My son is ill and can't use his ticket, so I'm going to let my another son use it so the seat isn't empty", and

"I've bought a ticket in my son's name, who has a lot of loyalty points, but I'm knowingly going to let my other son use it"

In short, anyone can claim a ticket was going to be legitimately used, but life events mean that is no longer the case and they don't want it to go to waste. There's no way of knowing whether that is the case or it was always intended for someone else to use the ticket.

I don't know how to practically resolve this situation in the short-term because allowing "life events" to be a legitimate reason to pass on a ticket clearly opens the door for anyone to hand over a ticket and claim such a "life event" happened.

The medium to long-term solution is e-ticketing for all tickets, home and away, allowing a ticket to be returned and re-listed for sale with a few clicks or taps. The ticket can be re-sold right up to match day, allowing someone else to attend and the original purchaser to receive a refund (less admin fee).

Until then, I'm not sure how things improve.

 

[El Presidente]

Only if you aren’t aware their opinion is non binding.

Absolutely, and as a believer in democratic process I defend their, your and Gary Lineker's right to express their opinions.

You appear to take the same view as that of the club, that a 10 match ban and loss of 50 loyalty points is appropriate for someone who did not buy a ticket, attend the match or read an email, and others think that it is harsh.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Stepping back from this individual case for a minute, there are a couple of problems that are tricky to solve and put the club in a difficult spot when it comes to ticketing, particularly for high-demand away fixtures.

There was a problem whereby people would maintain/enhance their position in the loyalty scheme by buying tickets for games they had no intention of attending, and giving the ticket to someone with lower ticket-buying priority to use. The fan who buys the ticket "wins" as he accrues the loyalty points. The fan who uses the ticket "wins" because he gets to attend a game he'd otherwise miss out on. The Albion fanbase, as a whole, lose because access to tickets becomes a bit of a closed shop, making it increasingly difficult for others to increase their own chances of legitimately obtaining tickets to in-demand games.

Trying to prevent this closed shop, and making the system more fair for everyone is clearly laudable and benefits everyone in the long-term.

Unfortunately, the vagaries of life mean there will always be people who buy a ticket but, come match day, are unable to attend. And that's where the problems come in...

1. Most away games involve paper tickets which make the logistics of returning a ticket for subsequent re-issue to another qualified fan difficult, if not impossible in short timescales. It looks to me that host clubs typically provide a fixed supply of pre-printed tickets, so it wouldn't be a case of being able to cancel the ticket and generate another one, saving the need to physically return the ticket and redistribute it to another fan.

2. It just doesn't feel right that the correct course of action for when a fan can't attend a game is to just leave that seat empty. The Premier League is the most watched league in the world and we are highly fortunate to be watching one of the best teams in that league. Surely a seat is better used than not, right?

The problem here comes that there is no way for the club to distinguish between:

"My son is ill and can't use his ticket, so I'm going to let my another son use it so the seat isn't empty", and

"I've bought a ticket in my son's name, who has a lot of loyalty points, but I'm knowingly going to let my other son use it"

In short, anyone can claim a ticket was going to be legitimately used, but life events mean that is no longer the case and they don't want it to go to waste. There's no way of knowing whether that is the case or it was always intended for someone else to use the ticket.

I don't know how to practically resolve this situation in the short-term because allowing "life events" to be a legitimate reason to pass on a ticket clearly opens the door for anyone to hand over a ticket and claim such a "life event" happened.

The medium to long-term solution is e-ticketing for all tickets, home and away, allowing a ticket to be returned and re-listed for sale with a few clicks or taps. The ticket can be re-sold right up to match day, allowing someone else to attend and the original purchaser to receive a refund (less admin fee).

Until then, I'm not sure how things improve.

Yup. That’s exactly where we are at. Every single word.

 

[Nobby]

I currently have an issue with an insurance claim.

It's a pretty open and shut case and it looks like (after a lot of too-ing and fro-ing), the insurance company have finally agreed to settle the claim in full, and are paying a small sum to compensate for a complaint I made.

I did threaten them with taking my case to the Financial Ombudsman.

So let's just imagine, if I had - the Ombudsman found in my favour, and asked the Insurance Company to apologise and pay my claim in full.

But the Insurance Company said feck off, and then plastered my name over their website inferring that I had made a fraudulent claim.


I can't see that this case is that different - albeit, the legal entity is a "Club Ltd", not an Insurance Company Ltd.

 

[Neville's Breakfast]

Absolutely, and as a believer in democratic process I defend their, your and Gary Lineker's right to express their opinions.

You appear to take the same view as that of the club, that a 10 match ban and loss of 50 loyalty points is appropriate for someone who did not buy a ticket, attend the match or read an email, and others think that it is harsh.

I’ve been answering these opinions with my opinion. Actually I don’t really have any opinion on the sanction itself. I’m not sure how anyone can judge how ‘fair’ it is. It’s entirely subjective. Wherever it is set there will be people opposed.

 

[Guinness Boy]

Stepping back from this individual case for a minute, there are a couple of problems that are tricky to solve and put the club in a difficult spot when it comes to ticketing, particularly for high-demand away fixtures.

There was a problem whereby people would maintain/enhance their position in the loyalty scheme by buying tickets for games they had no intention of attending, and giving the ticket to someone with lower ticket-buying priority to use. The fan who buys the ticket "wins" as he accrues the loyalty points. The fan who uses the ticket "wins" because he gets to attend a game he'd otherwise miss out on. The Albion fanbase, as a whole, lose because access to tickets becomes a bit of a closed shop, making it increasingly difficult for others to enhance their own chances of legitimately obtaining tickets to in-demand games.

Trying to prevent this closed shop, and making the system more fair for everyone is clearly laudable and benefits everyone in the long-term.

Unfortunately, the vagaries of life mean there will always be people who buy a ticket but, come match day, are unable to attend. And that's where the problems come in...

1. Most away games involve paper tickets which make the logistics of returning a ticket for subsequent re-issue to another qualified fan difficult, if not impossible in short timescales. It looks to me that host clubs typically provide a fixed supply of pre-printed tickets, so it wouldn't be a case of being able to cancel the ticket and generate another one, saving the need to physically return the ticket and redistribute it to another fan.

2. It just doesn't feel right that the correct course of action for when a fan can't attend a game is to just leave that seat empty. The Premier League is the most watched league in the world and we are highly fortunate to be watching one of the best teams in that league. Surely a seat is better used by a fan than left empty, right?

The problem here comes that there is no way for the club to distinguish between:

"My son is ill and can't use his ticket, so I'm going to let my another son use it so the seat isn't empty", and

"I've bought a ticket in my son's name, who has a lot of loyalty points, but I'm knowingly going to let my other son use it"

In short, anyone can claim a ticket was going to be legitimately used, but life events mean that is no longer the case and they don't want it to go to waste. There's no way of knowing whether that is the case or it was always intended for someone else to use the ticket.

I don't know how to practically resolve this situation in the short-term because allowing "life events" to be a legitimate reason to pass on a ticket clearly opens the door for anyone to hand over a ticket and claim such a "life event" happened.

The medium to long-term solution is e-ticketing for all tickets, home and away, allowing a ticket to be returned and re-listed for sale with a few clicks or taps. The ticket can be re-sold right up to match day, allowing someone else to attend and the original purchaser to receive a refund (less admin fee).

Until then, I'm not sure how things improve.

All of this.

Away exchange and digital away tickets needed asap.

IF we get to Europe we’d really need this next season. Life events are almost certainly going to include having a flight cancelled, work refusing leave or visa issues.

 

[London Pompous]

All of this.

Away exchange and digital away tickets needed asap.

IF we get to Europe we’d really need this next season. Life events are almost certainly going to include having a flight cancelled, work refusing leave or visa issues.

Typical leftie nonsense. All you need my son is a blue passport and the foreigner types will bow their heads and wave you through. No one would dare to go on strike, we won two world wars you know, and they had better remember it too.

 

[Stat Brother]

All of this.

Away exchange and digital away tickets needed asap.

IF we get to Europe we’d really need this next season. Life events are almost certainly going to include having a flight cancelled, work refusing leave or visa issues.

We'll need a visa for Kilmarnock away?