[Albion] Independent Football Ombudsman rules on Albion fan ban and loyalty points deduction

[timbha]

Very well run club on the pitch. Very poorly run club for those in the stands. Still a long way to go on that front, as is obvious here.

Will never happen with Barber at the helm though. The man’s incapable of such things.

Exactly 24 hours since our great victory for the exaggerated negativity to surface. Can’t criticise the team so have a pop at Barber

 

[herecomesaregular]

Shockingly bad show by the club here. Shameful.

 

[Winker]

Reading the IFO report properly instead of skimming, the facts of this case seem to be...

1. Fan A buys a ticket in Fan B's name. Fan B is completely unaware because the club's Friends and Family ticketing function permits this activity but, crucially, does not notify Fan B of the transaction at any time.

2. Fan A gives the ticket to Fan C.

3. The club finds out Fan C is using the ticket via an ID check

4. The club sanctions Fan B, even though the club's fan charter does not actually cover this scenario in any way at all? The club's charter covers someone buying a ticket (Fan B didn't) and sharing it with someone else (Fan B didn't).

Has anyone else read it from top to bottom? It feels like I'm missing a detail as I don't see how Fan B can be sanctioned if I understand it all correctly.

The club are implying that Fan B knew that a ticket had been bought in his name but he clearly can't disprove it (and neither can they prove that he did).
This shows there is a flaw in the system.
Either the system is foolproof or this will re-occur.

 

[GT49er]

Exactly 24 hours since our great victory for the exaggerated negativity to surface. Can’t criticise the team so have a pop at Barber

Thoroughly justified. The club's (or Barber's) paranoia is a blight on the club.

 

[Bozza]

What I would say, is that following the policy being introduced that the ticket allocation for away games has seemed to work a lot better.

Very much so, yes.

I can only speak about those I speak to and socialise with but, without exception, no-one I know is prepared to get a ticket for someone else to use as the risk of being caught and banned is considered too great. Previously there would be the occasional bit of "are you going to XXXX? If not, can I take up your ticket?" about.

I've said it before and I'm sure I'll say it again, we are very fortunate to have some very good people running and administering the club and they do, unquestionably, act in the interest of the supporter base as a whole. It is always evident that a lot of thought and consideration goes into all aspects of how we interact with the club. That doesn't mean everything is done correctly, or done correctly first time, but the intentions are always good.

 

[GT49er]

Yes, I've read it in full.
The wording of the away ticket policy is written that the person purchasing the ticket(s) are responsible, so on that basis you're correct. No doubt this will be updated to reflect what the club are looking to achieve, that the person named on the ticket is responsible.

This may need an email being issued to everyone where a ticket is purchased under the friends and family option rather than just to the lead purchaser, so that they are aware that a ticket has been purchased in their name.

What I would say, is that following the policy being introduced that the ticket allocation for away games has seemed to work a lot better.

With European football on the horizon, it is even more important that the Club ensure that the ticketing system works correctly and fairly.

Is it?

Is it really?

Is it really more important to have empty seats (which have been paid for, of course!) than to have Albion supporters' bums on those seats? Even if PB doesn't know their name and address, their smartphone number and email address, their bank details, their debit/credit card details, their credit rating, their CRB check, their inside leg measurement and f*** knows what else? How much would the Albion lose? - woud all those bums on seats have gone through all the hoops and reward and loyalty points to buy one of the other tickets? ....................... err... no.

There are reasons why I have never seen The Albion at home since the Goldstone - some, particularly at Gillingham and the Withdean not the clubs fault - other factors determined that. Since then, had the hotel at The Amex been there, I might have managed two nghts and a match ticket, thanks to Mum and Dad's demise and half a house, but frankly with all the hoops I'd have to jump through (and i don't have a smart phone or a printer) I accept I won't see Brighton at home again in my lifetime (or after that, for obvious reasons!).

Away? - no problem (though only at Forest Green since being in the PL) - just turned up and asked politely at the ticket office if they had a spare ticket - both Bristol clubs, Swindon, Hereford, Cheltenham, Birmingham, Forest Green, Walsall, MK Dons, never a problem. Maybe they have Chief Executives who don't feel obliged to check my CRB, credit rating, bank details and inside leg measurements before they let me into their grounds!

Only terms and condtions seem to be, 'Come in and behave yourself'. Feels like that's where footballl should be..................

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This is really quite appalling.

Why on earth haven't the club fixed the ticketing system so people can’t have their tickets used unknowingly like this?

 

[Horses Arse]

Yes, I've read it in full.
The wording of the away ticket policy is written that the person purchasing the ticket(s) are responsible, so on that basis you're correct. No doubt this will be updated to reflect what the club are looking to achieve, that the person named on the ticket is responsible.

This may need an email being issued to everyone where a ticket is purchased under the friends and family option rather than just to the lead purchaser, so that they are aware that a ticket has been purchased in their name.

What I would say, is that following the policy being introduced that the ticket allocation for away games has seemed to work a lot better.

With European football on the horizon, it is even more important that the Club

Exactly 24 hours since our great victory for the exaggerated negativity to surface. Can’t criticise the team so have a pop at Barber

He's spot on though

 

[Goldstone1976]

This is really quite appalling.

Why on earth haven't the club fixed the ticketing system so people can’t have their tickets used unknowingly like this?

There seems to be some misunderstanding about this specific point.

The IFO report states:

“The Supporter received an email from the Club on 27 September 2022 (3 days after the ticket was bought by his son using the Dad’s [the Supporter] account), entitled ‘Important Information about Away Match Tickets.’ The email thanked the Supporter ‘for purchasing tickets for an upcoming away match.’

And, later… in his appeal to the club, the Supporter is quoted by the IFO as having said…

‘…If there was an email that I should have seen then I’m afraid I didn’t - I get so many work emails.’

 

[Justice]

Exactly 24 hours since our great victory for the exaggerated negativity to surface. Can’t criticise the team so have a pop at Barber

Many many fans have been around long before Mr B entered the building. I could fully understand if these tickets had been touted for profit yet they haven’t simply passed between friends and family.

 

[Paulie Gualtieri]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about this specific point.

The IFO report states:

“The Supporter received an email from the Club on 27 September 2022 (3 days after the ticket was bought by his son using the Dad’s [the Supporter] account), entitled ‘Important Information about Away Match Tickets.’ The email thanked the Supporter ‘for purchasing tickets for an upcoming away match.’

And, later… in his appeal to the club, the Supporter is quoted by the IFO as having said…

‘…If there was an email that I should have seen then I’m afraid I didn’t - I get so many work emails.’

I’ll need to read it in full but had wondered if the instant purchase confirmation email had gone to the dad (it should do regardless IMHO) and whether the email on 27th was a generic email to all on the mailing list or just those that had bought tickets for the match?

There’s obviously no defence if the dad was made aware that tickets had been purchased even if he was “too busy” at work.

Sounds like there’s no definitive way of proving if he knew or didn’t so the sanction should have been less than the quoted club charter amount whilst at the same time the process reviewed and updated to tighten up as inevitably it will happen again

 

[El Presidente]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about this specific point.

The IFO report states:

“The Supporter received an email from the Club on 27 September 2022 (3 days after the ticket was bought by his son using the Dad’s [the Supporter] account), entitled ‘Important Information about Away Match Tickets.’ The email thanked the Supporter ‘for purchasing tickets for an upcoming away match.’

And, later… in his appeal to the club, the Supporter is quoted by the IFO as having said…

‘…If there was an email that I should have seen then I’m afraid I didn’t - I get so many work emails.’

I get 200 emails a day, many are spam or look like spam so don’t tend to be read. A ten match ban and loss of points for not reading an email is not a proportionate tariff.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

There seems to be some misunderstanding about this specific point.

The IFO report states:

“The Supporter received an email from the Club on 27 September 2022 (3 days after the ticket was bought by his son using the Dad’s [the Supporter] account), entitled ‘Important Information about Away Match Tickets.’ The email thanked the Supporter ‘for purchasing tickets for an upcoming away match.’

And, later… in his appeal to the club, the Supporter is quoted by the IFO as having said…

‘…If there was an email that I should have seen then I’m afraid I didn’t - I get so many work emails.’

Fair point.

Whilst I appreciate you can’t use “so many work emails” as an excuse, was the email on 27.09 relating to this specific ticket? Or a general email about the rule changes at that time? I note the email refers simply to an “upcoming away match” I don’t think I have ever had an email directly confirming a ticket has been purchased on my behalf……I still think this would be a sensible update to the system.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

I get 200 emails a day, many are spam or look like spam so don’t tend to be read. A ten match ban and loss of points for not reading an email is not a proportionate tariff.

I can imagine most of your emails do get filtered out

 

[Tory Boy]

An independent source has said the club got it wrong and should apologise.

In my opinion that’s the least the club should do.

 

[Goldstone1976]

I get 200 emails a day, many are spam or look like spam so don’t tend to be read. A ten match ban and loss of points for not reading an email is not a proportionate tariff.

Oh, I completely agree! Perhaps I should have made that clear. I was simply correcting HT’s point about the Supporter not having been told about a ticket purchase.

 

[ROSM]

I know others have said this elsewhere, but this whole action from the club and seemingly wanting to ignore the IFO does seem to indicate there would be value in an independent regulator.

When the club are so concerned about one coming in, you would think a tactical withdrawal on this would strengthen the case for a status quo. But sadly someone hasn't looked at the big picture here.

 

[Goldstone1976]

Fair point.

Whilst I appreciate you can’t use “so many work emails” as an excuse, was the email on 27.09 relating to this specific ticket? Or a general email about the rule changes at that time? I note the email refers simply to an “upcoming away match” I don’t think I have ever had an email directly confirming a ticket has been purchased on my behalf……I still think this would be a sensible update to the system.

On your question: I dunno. The report doesn’t specify.

On your assertion at the end: I agree.

 

[El Presidente]

I can imagine most of your emails do get filtered out

I received one today from a sex toy company offering me a 15% discount on their products to celebrate the King’s Coronation.

Not sure that Charles will be thinking when he puts on the big hat “Not only is this my day but one of my citizens is saving £8 on a Cuntbuster XXL, it makes being a King even better”

 

[Guinness Boy]

The club have misread the room IMO. They get 90% of things absolutely spot on. It’s a shame they can’t admit the 10% they get wrong.