[Albion] Ince

[Scunner]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

 

[Bwian]

Ince has only played one DS match this season.

That was my point. What good is the DS if fringe players aren't kept match fit, ready to step up to the 1st team when required?

If the only action players like Ince are getting is 'normal training' and the occasional subs appearance it's no wonder our performances go down the toilet when we have a couple of key players unavailable.

 

[aolstudios]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

This. Pretty much all of it

 

[CheeseRolls]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

A little harsh maybe, but a top quality rant nevertheless. Top bombing

 

[sdmartin1]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

I agree with a lot of what you've written there, especially the bit about Holla. A lot of people don't seem to rate him and he did go missing in games last season but he must have got quite a few assists last season from corners alone, his set pieces are far better than anyone else at the club, haven't looked at the stats but we must have had close to ten corners on Saturday and 3/4 very good free kick opportunities, with only one dangerous delivery in the whole match.

As for JFC, whilst a lot of what you say is true (and as I said earlier in the thread I would prefer him to Ince) I think a lot of it comes down to Hughton's slightly cautious approach. JFC's weakness can tend to be being strong on the ball and being able to make tackles and win the ball back consistently. I would say Ince offers more in that department but for me struggles the pass the ball to a teammate at times let alone play a defence splitting pass which JFC is capable of.

 

[El Presidente]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

I think you should get off the fence and say how you really feel though

 

[nwgull]

That was my point. What good is the DS if fringe players aren't kept match fit, ready to step up to the 1st team when required?

If the only action players like Ince are getting is 'normal training' and the occasional subs appearance it's no wonder our performances go down the toilet when we have a couple of key players unavailable.

The DS is primarily for U21s and the development of 18-21 year old players, not to keep overage players fit. Rules allow up to 3 overage players, but using this allowance on a regular basis is going to result in a load of youth team players not getting much game time.

 

[Scunner]

I think you should get off the fence and say how you really feel though

It's Monday...

 

[Stat Brother]

I really don't get what the negative Nerys' on this thread were expecting from Ince on Saturday.

Everybody has know, from the start of the season, choices 3 to 7 central midfielders are a long way behind Kayal and Stephens.
That distance was only ever increasing with the lack of game time and the strength of the bond forming between the two.

Ince and Crofts have never played 90 minutes together.
Ince hasn't played 90 mins in the league all season.
The team even finished with the 7th choice central midfielder on the pitch.

Why (rhetorical question) are people so desperate to slag off Ince?

He came in, he had to do a job, and the team didn't get beaten.
Ince won't be playing v Reading, hopefully neither will Crofts.
Neither of them are Frank Lampard or Stevie G, which it would appear many fans expect the 4th choice centre midfielder to be, at a second division side.

Had Bobby dinked in with his first touch, would Ince still have been worthy of a character assassination?

 

[Bwian]

The DS is primarily for U21s and the development of 18-21 year old players, not to keep overage players fit. Rules allow up to 3 overage players, but using this allowance on a regular basis is going to result in a load of youth team players not getting much game time.

So how do players like Ince, Holla, etc., stay match fit and match ready?

It's no good spending more than £30m on a training, sorry, 'centre of football excellence' if we get performances like we did on Saturday from Ince and others filling key positions to cover suspensions and injuries.

Do we have a 'reserve team' playing in anything resembling a competative league? Genuine question because I dont know. What I do know is that we can't afford to wait 3 or 4 games for fringe players to 'get up to match fitness' as we drop points whilst waiting for them to get up to speed.

 

[nwgull]

So how do players like Ince, Holla, etc., stay match fit and match ready?

It's no good spending more than £30m on a training, sorry, 'centre of football excellence' if we get performances like we did on Saturday from Ince and others filling key positions to cover suspensions and injuries.

Do we have a 'reserve team' playing in anything resembling a competative league? Genuine question because I dont know. What I do know is that we can't afford to wait 3 or 4 games for fringe players to 'get up to match fitness' as we drop points whilst waiting for them to get up to speed.

There are no reserves, only the option to play up to 3 senior players in the U21 league. However, nothing is going to come close to replicating the level of senior first team football like senior first team football, which is probably why the next step up for our most talented U21s seems to be loans to League 1 and League 2 clubs.

 

[Brighton Mod]

There are no reserves, only the option to play up to 3 senior players in the U21 league. However, nothing is going to come close to replicating the level of senior first team football like senior first team football, which is probably why the next step up for our most talented U21s seems to be loans to League 1 and League 2 clubs.

Should we send BZ out on loan then, his long lay off doesn't appear to have affected his ability to score?

 

[Brighton Mod]

That was my point. What good is the DS if fringe players aren't kept match fit, ready to step up to the 1st team when required?

If the only action players like Ince are getting is 'normal training' and the occasional subs appearance it's no wonder our performances go down the toilet when we have a couple of key players unavailable.

So a multi million pound club, vying for a place in the premiership has to accept that its replacements for injuries and suspensions will not be ready, I don't buy this. Its up to the club to keep its first team squad ready in order to achieve their aim. Its now a squad game, Hun had a few games off but came back, no great criticism of him.

 

[nwgull]

Should we send BZ out on loan then, his long lay off doesn't appear to have affected his ability to score?

Why on earth would we send BZ on loan?

 

[aolstudios]

Why on earth would we send BZ on loan?

Wooooosh

 

[Brighton Mod]

Why on earth would we send BZ on loan?

Because using the rationale, as highlighted previously, that he has not played enough first team football, he would not be up to speed. The point being made that players should be ready if they are in the first team squad, this was in answer to the apparant lack of fitness, sharpness and committment from Ince on Saturday.

 

[mejonaNO12 aka riskit]

Would Ince be a championship midfielder if he wasnt FLIPPING huge?

Completely strikes me as a centre back playing out of position.

 

[perseus]

Very hard to boss the game when he has hardly played any football this season. Just like March he probably needs a run of games to get up to speed etc.

As for having no future at BHA that's just utter drivel. We know what he is capable of and his still a young lad.

Gallagher for PNE had more touches and passes than Ince and Crofts put together. This enabled Ince to have a high pass sucess rate but they were all simple lay-offs and he seemed to have lost confidence to try and hold on to the ball and not telegraph his ordinary passes. Not a playmaker will Ince be. Ince was not called on to head the ball very much.

Still hopeful he will show his potential. Out of match practice.

I think I would have had him man-marking Gallagher.

 

[WhingForPresident]

I have outlined my views on Ince here before, but Saturday was not his fault, it was Hughton's. Against a nominal 5-3-2, with the wing backs and centre halves doubling up on our wingers we needed to have a different solution to 442. Hughton was out-thought by Grayson and we desperately needed someone with quality on the ball like Holla rather than a sterile combination of Ince and Crofts. Games like that are often won with dead-ball situations and our best dead ball operator was on the bench.

It is not misguided to say that Ince is not Championship standard, on a talent level he is probably Conference or League 2 level. He is where he is because of where he came from and his imposing presence. He could never be a centre half because he cannot head the ball, his deficiencies in this area are difficult to watch for someone with his attributes.

It often surprises me on here when I see him being lauded and someone who is Championship level like JFC being derided. It sums up in two players everything that has and will continue to be wrong with lower level football in England. Ince can't receive the ball on the turn, is static in possession, only looks for a safe option (relieved that he managed to control and not lose the ball), can't head the ball, can't play a killer pass and is generally not very good. JFC plays for England, is comfortable in possession, looks up for an option, can play a killer pass, can head the ball and is by any measure a very good footballer. Yet, because Ince is strong, big and wins a tackle every now and then (usually when he's desperately tracking back having lost possession) some love him.

It's an NSC triumph...Good player gets battered in incessant threads and goes to MK Dons on loan where his stats recently were the highest in the division, and is loved; below average lump is lauded on here and becomes our go to option against a team in the bottom half of the division when 3 points would have put us 6 points clear - plays like a lampost.

Amazing.

Maybe the heirachy don't read this forum, but many people who have opinions inside the club do, and they will not have been impervious to the assaults JFC was coming under.

Good post.

 

[sydney]

lamp post , hat stand , letter box........take yer pick , it's just as important what's going on above the shoulders as well , a lump like ince who can't / won't head the ferkin ball is a terribly frustrating creature to watch....he looks like viera , he plays like nureyev...ffs.