Important: Reporting homophobic chanting

[Igor Gurinovich?]

No it isn't. Not necessarily. This is why homophobic abuse isn't the same as racist abuse. Making monkey noises or calling people black ***** is always racist, whether it happens in the street or at a football ground. Singing/saying "we can see you holding hands" or "does your boyfriend know you're here" does not always have homophobic connotations, how can it? In the context of a Brighton game (for people who know we've traditionally been seen as the 'gay' team) it is probably is of course, but how do you prove it? Someone accused of homophobic chanting might say "well I'd never seen Brighton play before, I didn't know about the gay thing and I saw this attractive girl and wondered if she had a boyfriend and if so was he with her?" Even the more graphic descriptions of sexual acts can be deemed to be merely offending people's sense of decency as opposed to being specifically homophobic..

so you say no it isnt and then yet acknowledge that in the context the thread has been set up it is likely to be? sorry but i think its a pretty weak argument to suggest that chants like this aren't aimed in a homophobic way and are simply an extension of the comments that get made buy supporters of other teams toward Brighton fans.
Personally im not bothered by it, its a bit tired and unimaginative, but to be expected in the environment that surrounds football. What i find barmy is a thread suggesting that anyone who is genuinely offended (and that's their right) shouldn't bother to report it to the relevant authorities...

 

[Insider]

Richie - the point being made is we would prefer fans report this direct to the club, rather than via the FA and media - which seemed to be a tit-for-tat approach after the Craig Bellamy debacle?

 

[British Bulldog]

I don't get upset by it, but still recognise it is homophobic. Whether people are offended by it or not does not change the intent, which is to poke fun at Brighton fans because of the city's homosexual population.

In all honesty just about every chant aimed at opposition fans is done to poke fun at them.

 

[chrissyboy01]

I'm with you on this one. It happens at football matches. It's a bit of fun. We have as much fun with our "you're too ugly to be gay", "one nil to the nancy boys", and "we're gay and we're beating you" chants. Actually it would be nice to have more opportunities to use the last two.

Cardiff had fun with 'one nil to the sheep sha**ers' when they took the lead against Leeds yesterday - that was clearly audible throught the tv mics. So what happens in that situation? Can you imagine a Cardiff fan complaining about it?

 

[rool]

Richie - the point being made is we would prefer fans report this direct to the club, rather than via the FA and media - which seemed to be a tit-for-tat approach after the Craig Bellamy debacle?

What kind of response could the fans expect from the club?
The various experiences of fans reporting other issues since the Amex opened suggests long silences.

 

[Brovion]

so you say no it isnt and then yet acknowledge that in the context the thread has been set up it is likely to be? sorry but i think its a pretty weak argument to suggest that chants like this aren't aimed in a homophobic way and are simply an extension of the comments that get made buy supporters of other teams toward Brighton fans.
Personally im not bothered by it, its a bit tired and unimaginative, but to be expected in the environment that surrounds football. What i find barmy is a thread suggesting that anyone who is genuinely offended (and that's their right) shouldn't bother to report it to the relevant authorities...

At the risk of repeating myself I'll try and summarise it. No those two, mild chants are not homophobic per se in the way that racist chanting is always racist. Surely you can see that? However yes in the context of a Brighton game they are 'probably' said with homophobic intent - but you try and prove it. Those two facts combined mean that the implementation of any anti-homophobic policy is not going to be as straightforward as it was to implement anti-racist policies.

And I don't think it's an 'argument' as such, more a warning that blundering head first and emailing the FA every time someone sings "we can see you holding hands" is in the long run going to do more harm than good - as Insider as hinted.

 

[sydney]

i remember when we weren't bothered........what a joke honestly, as a bloke who went through english school with an irish sir name , all i can say is toughen the f*** up before you become a laughing stock.

 

[British Bulldog]

"Does your boyfiend know you're here" is probably the softest example of homophobia we'll ever come across. It's nothing.

It's not even homophobic as there's nothing in the chant about disliking gays or even being insulting to gays.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Is that really how you interpret mine and Insider's posts? Bless you Richie.

Does the club know if it was reported by a fan at the game or an armchair supporter who heard it on tv in a similar way to the 'Bellamy incident'?

 

[Bwian]

So, was the Palace chant 'we scored three they scored one Brighton take it up the bum' banter or homophobia? Genuine question. If I was a parent I wouldn't fancy the job of explaining that to a child.

 

[DJ Leon]

At the risk of repeating myself I'll try and summarise it. No those two, mild chants are not homophobic per se in the way that racist chanting is always racist. Surely you can see that? However yes in the context of a Brighton game they are 'probably' said with homophobic intent - but you try and prove it. Those two facts combined mean that the implementation of any anti-homophobic policy is not going to be as straightforward as it was to implement anti-racist policies.

And I don't think it's an 'argument' as such, more a warning that blundering head first and emailing the FA every time someone sings "we can see you holding hands" is in the long run going to do more harm than good - as Insider as hinted.

I agree with this. However, some chanting is blatantly homophobic 'just a town full of faggots' being one and there obvious cases where individual fans use similarly offensive language before, during and after the game. These are what needs to be acted upon.

 

[Muzzy]

It's all getting very pretentious in this thread. "Does your boyfiend know you're here" is probably the softest example of homophobia we'll ever come across. It's nothing. Why is there such a need to get all serious and precious about it all of sudden? What's changed? Is it because of that idiot who posted the "I've been banned for calling Bellamy a sheep-shagger"?

If the away fans were shouting, "f*** off you gay pricks", then yes, complain. Does your boyfriend know you're here is banter. Simple as that. Sheep-shaggers (lalala) is banter. Oi, Anton, you black **** is out of order and rightly being investigated. There is a world of difference. Complaining about something like the boyfriend chant trivialises homophobia in my opinion.

Very controversial subject for debate on this forum though, I hope the coppers aren't following. Be careful...

I have to agree with you on this one... I'm a tad confused as to what all the fuss is about tbh! I would imagine that we are likely to have more homophobic supporters amongst our fans than many other clubs going by the stuff I hear down the pub! I have no problem with how people decide to live their lives btw!

The term precious springs to mind reading this thread IMO.

Banter is banter after all. We happen to be the gay capital so it's to be expected surely?

Homophobic abuse towards an individual is different though, but I've not witnessed any!

The ironic thing about our gay community is that of all the gay people that I know are not even Sussex born and bred.

 

[Buzzer]

Richie - the point being made is we would prefer fans report this direct to the club, rather than via the FA and media - which seemed to be a tit-for-tat approach after the Craig Bellamy debacle?

does it matter that it was tit-for-tat? Homophobic chanting was heard and reported. The circumstances surrounding why it was reported is surely irrelevant. I do wonder as well at how difficult it really is to identify people making homophobic chants at football.

If you are really serious about wanting to eradicate the bigotry then it's about time that BHA formally petitioned the FA and Football League about the homophobic abuse that we Brighton fans are uniquely subjected to each and every game. Why not invite officials from these organisations to sit with opposition fans during a few random games and hear what is being said. You and I both know they will hear sustained homophobic abuse at every game they attend.

To be honest, your suggested approach is one big fat cop-out. I'd rather you did nothing than pretend that you are doing something.

 

[Giraffe]

I was sat with the Birmingham fans on Saturday, and the guy next to me made some gay comments. But I wouldn't have a clue what is abuse and what isn't. Is him pointing out that brighton is full of gays abuse? Very grey area I feel.

 

[pastafarian]

I'm with you on this one. It happens at football matches. It's a bit of fun. We have as much fun with our "you're too ugly to be gay", "one nil to the nancy boys", and "we're gay and we're beating you" chants. Actually it would be nice to have more opportunities to use the last two.

im with you on this as well,
im sorry but i cant believe that some people on here are so offended it warrants a campaign
i think its more a case of the Mr Ross/Andrew Sachs syndrome........some people just like to moan and be offended as they have nothing better to do

 

[Hillian1]

Just a though, how many people being offended were regular attendee's at Withers? I mean we've heard it week in week out for years and only now is something being done after a massive influx of new fans.

This post is not meant to inflame just food for thought.

 

[Thunder Bolt]

Just a though, how many people being offended were regular attendee's at Withers? I mean we've heard it week in week out for years and only now is something being done after a massive influx of new fans.

This post is not meant to inflame just food for thought.

See Insider's post about away fans being arrested at Withdean.

 

[Cullip4]

Only option I can see would be to electrify all the seats in the away end and when they start to chant homophobic abuse, shock them.

Eventually like lab monkeys they will stop.

 

[HAILSHAM SEAGULL]

Perhaps Bozza could add a poll to see how many are offended and how many give a toss

 

[Commander]

From reading this thread it sounds like there are more than a few Brighton fans who would happily join in with the 'banter' if it was another town with a high homosexual population. Which, in 2011, is a crying shame.

Haven't read the whole thread but this is a VERY valid point. If Brighton didn't have a big gay scene but, for example, Croydon did, do you think we wouldn't sing "Does your boyfriend know you're here" or whatever, to them? Because I can tell you know that we (by we I mean the crowd in general) would. Without a shadow of a doubt. Same as 'we' sing 'sheepshaggers' etc to Welsh clubs. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. Every other club in the country does it to us, does anyone really think we are that different?