Impending Tube Strike and Our Champagne Socialist.......

[Seagull on the wing]

Exactly, you don't have a clue what you're on about. Stick to criticizing my MASSIVE protests before you make an even BIGGER fool of yourself

Sipping my champers and nibbling the canapes.
Are you an union member Ernie or ever have been ? Maybe a member of a political party?
I have apologised for my mistake but looking at your location maybe you're the fool...cheeky kids should be seen and not heard. Night Night Ernie,sleep tight...oops shouldn't mention Tight should I.

 

[Beach Hut]

Sipping my champers and nibbling the canapes.
Are you an union member Ernie or ever have been ? Maybe a member of a political party?
I have apologised for my mistake but looking at your location maybe you're the fool...cheeky kids should be seen and not heard. Night Night Ernie,sleep tight...oops shouldn't mention Tight should I.

He is a Union member and so am I and to my disgust TSSA are part of the leftie sh1te which started around an hour a go.

 

[Seagull on the wing]

We'll keep the red flag flying high.......

Didn't know you were a Cardiff supporter Beach Hut....

 

[cunning fergus]

I know his views on the EU, and those of Tony Benn's, but I do not agree with them. I have a more co-operative outlook and prefer freedom of movement for those who want it. And I cannot ever get away from the fact that workers rights are corroded more by a crap economy, big-business and a lack of representation than a few Romanian's turning up.

The reality on the ground for British workers (particularly those towards the lower end of the skills spectrum) is that your preference for the freedom of movement of labour in the EU is a 24 carat disaster.

I can't think of a single political or socio-economic issue which benefits from completely unrestricted controls by a Government and it is an indictment on our political classes that they continue to ignore the consequences of a political doctrine that has never (and would never) be accepted by the British electorate.

Of course the bone the political classes (and some unions) throw to the low skilled is the minimum wage, however the legislation behind this relatively recent concept should be contrasted against the first ever legislation in this country that sought to control the pay of British workers.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/YALDstatute.htm

Proof if ever it was needed that the powerful will always seek to oppress the powerless for their own ends, and whilst I don't agree with Bob Crow on all his views; he is right about the implications of a free labour market for British workers (as is Tony Benn for that matter).

It is no coincidence that the RMT Union which helped form Labour in 1900 is no longer affiliated with the Labour Party...........only one has remained true to the cause of socialism. Go figure.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

The reality on the ground for British workers (particularly those towards the lower end of the skills spectrum) is that your preference for the freedom of movement of labour in the EU is a 24 carat disaster.

I can't think of a single political or socio-economic issue which benefits from completely unrestricted controls by a Government and it is an indictment on our political classes that they continue to ignore the consequences of a political doctrine that has never (and would never) be accepted by the British electorate.

Of course the bone the political classes (and some unions) throw to the low skilled is the minimum wage, however the legislation behind this relatively recent concept should be contrasted against the first ever legislation in this country that sought to control the pay of British workers.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/YALDstatute.htm

Proof if ever it was needed that the powerful will always seek to oppress the powerless for their own ends, and whilst I don't agree with Bob Crow on all his views; he is right about the implications of a free labour market for British workers (as is Tony Benn for that matter).

It is no coincidence that the RMT Union which helped form Labour in 1900 is no longer affiliated with the Labour Party...........only one has remained true to the cause of socialism. Go figure.

I feel we both want the same goal, but we just have very different ideas on how it will be achieved; I prefer proactive methods as opposed to reactive ones. If you want to help the British working class then create a healthy economy with real skilled jobs and then train people to undertake these jobs. It stands to reason if you have a vacancy for a blah-blah job and some local lad has been trained to be a blah-blah then he stands a very good chance of getting it over someone else. This is a much better way than the lazy and unimaginative "lets-legislate" approach. And hey, if a Romanian turns up who is better than the local lad then fair play and the boss gets a very good worker and his business flourishes; ce la vie. This to me seems a much more sensible approach all round.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

He is a Union member and so am I and to my disgust TSSA are part of the leftie sh1te which started around an hour a go.

Sorry, did I read this correctly, YOU are a Union member? Why on earth are you a union member? You seem to despise unions? Am I missing something here?

 

[Tubby Mondays]

HHmmm! Lets start with the vote rigging in Falkirk,|( Bob Crows Unite Union) which the Labour party have gone to the ends of the Earth to cover up the inquiry report...having been a union member I have seen the corrupt practices and terror tactics first hand...if unions kept to their job,helping the working man.... and did not get into politics then they would get my support.

So you tried to explain the corruption issue, and failed dreadfully.

Lets have a try with the bob crowe on holiday calling a strike on the underground whilst living in a council house link with income support and housing benefit.

Best of luck with this one.

 

[The Spanish]

I feel we both want the same goal, but we just have very different ideas on how it will be achieved; I prefer proactive methods as opposed to reactive ones. If you want to help the British working class then create a healthy economy with real skilled jobs and then train people to undertake these jobs. It stands to reason if you have a vacancy for a blah-blah job and some local lad has been trained to be a blah-blah then he stands a very good chance of getting it over someone else. This is a much better way than the lazy and unimaginative "lets-legislate" approach. And hey, if a Romanian turns up who is better than the local lad then fair play and the boss gets a very good worker and his business flourishes; ce la vie. This to me seems a much more sensible approach all round.

you spelt cheaper wrong there.

so you dont want to legislate to protect the british workforce but we need investment in training. you going to just ask everyone nicely then?

cunning fergus is spot on and you are in cloud cuckoo land HT.

 

[Beach Hut]

Sorry, did I read this correctly, YOU are a Union member? Why on earth are you a union member? You seem to despise unions? Am I missing something here?

Yes as it was a closed shop when I joined and remained in or protection if made redundant and yes I dislike them

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

cunning fergus is spot on and you are in cloud cuckoo land HT.

I am actually in Germany...where they do EXACTLY what I have explained.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

Yes as it was a closed shop when I joined and remained in or protection if made redundant and yes I dislike them

If you dislike them so much then leave. It is not a closed-shop any more.

 

[The Spanish]

I am actually in Germany...where they do EXACTLY what I have explained.

no one told oz neville barry wayne bomber and moxie then did they

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

no one told oz neville barry wayne bomber and moxie then did they

That was the 80s. It's now 2014.

Great program though "let's go for an Indian, you cannot get anymore English than that"

 

[Simster]

I am actually in Germany...where they do EXACTLY what I have explained.

This sort of policy takes decades to produce results, but we're dealing with today's reality.

When the wall came down, there were all sorts of murmerings of discontent for YEARS, from West Germans aggrieved at paying for East German rebuilding and then being priced out of jobs locally by Ossies coming over the border. You can also point to cheap labour in Germany coming from Turkey, and their "guest worker" rights - meaning Germany could just turn them away when they saw fit. And did. If you're going to hold Germany up as an example of how things should be done, you're only painting half the picture.

My position is that the EU works well where member states have broadly similarly wealthy economies, but falls apart for the semi and un-skilled members of the work force when poorer countries enter the Eurozone. These people, British people, are being criminally neglected by the political and middle classes, IMO. Obviously the ideal solution is for our entire workforce to be skilled AND in work, but in reality this isn't always going to be the case. Consequently, your argument is doing nothing to address the issue of here and now - that indigenous British unskilled and semi-skilled workers are being priced out by Eastern Europeans prepared to live 8 to a 2-bed flat for a 3 year stint, saving and then going home.

You're a paid up member of the Labour party and can't see it - no wonder some people feel that today's Labour party have no interest in the British working man.

 

[Westdene Seagull]

Yes as it was a closed shop when I joined and remained in or protection if made redundant and yes I dislike them

Probably too late now but you might want to consider how much your union fees are and compare it to the cost of a decent employment solicitor. Generally, unless redundancy is particularly messy, you wouldn't be paying any more than around £350+VAT for a solicitor to handle the process on your behalf. So less than 4 years of union fees would pay for it.

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

you going to just ask everyone nicely then?

.

I know this is a strange concept; the English answer to everything is BAN IT! But, making the British workforce more attractive to employers via a specific and rounded skill-set is not out-there crazy thinking is it?

 

[The Spanish]

B

This sort of policy takes decades to produce results, but we're dealing with today's reality.

When the wall came down, there were all sorts of murmerings of discontent for YEARS, from West Germans aggrieved at paying for East German rebuilding and then being priced out of jobs locally by Ossies coming over the border. You can also point to cheap labour in Germany coming from Turkey, and their "guest worker" rights - meaning Germany could just turn them away when they saw fit. And did. If you're going to hold Germany up as an example of how things should be done, you're only painting half the picture.

My position is that the EU works well where member states have broadly similarly wealthy economies, but falls apart for the semi and un-skilled members of the work force when poorer countries enter the Eurozone. These people, British people, are being criminally neglected by the political and middle classes, IMO. Obviously the ideal solution is for our entire workforce to be skilled AND in work, but in reality this isn't always going to be the case. Consequently, your argument is doing nothing to address the issue of here and now - that indigenous British unskilled and semi-skilled workers are being priced out by Eastern Europeans prepared to live 8 to a 2-bed flat for a 3 year stint, saving and then going home.

You're a paid up member of the Labour party and can't see it - no wonder some people feel that today's Labour party have no interest in the British working man.

Wish I had written that rather than something stupid about auf weidersehen pet

 

[Beach Hut]

If you dislike them so much then leave. It is not a closed-shop any more.

I know that, believe it or not but my choice

 

[Herr Tubthumper]

This sort of policy takes decades to produce results, but we're dealing with today's reality.

When the wall came down, there were all sorts of murmerings of discontent for YEARS, from West Germans aggrieved at paying for East German rebuilding and then being priced out of jobs locally by Ossies coming over the border. You can also point to cheap labour in Germany coming from Turkey, and their "guest worker" rights - meaning Germany could just turn them away when they saw fit. And did. If you're going to hold Germany up as an example of how things should be done, you're only painting half the picture.

My position is that the EU works well where member states have broadly similarly wealthy economies, but falls apart for the semi and un-skilled members of the work force when poorer countries enter the Eurozone. These people, British people, are being criminally neglected by the political and middle classes, IMO. Obviously the ideal solution is for our entire workforce to be skilled AND in work, but in reality this isn't always going to be the case. Consequently, your argument is doing nothing to address the issue of here and now - that indigenous British unskilled and semi-skilled workers are being priced out by Eastern Europeans prepared to live 8 to a 2-bed flat for a 3 year stint, saving and then going home.

You're a paid up member of the Labour party and can't see it - no wonder some people feel that today's Labour party have no interest in the British working man.

The Turks did not come to Germany as cheap labour. I believe they originally came due to a severe lack of semi-skilled labour in the 60s. And the guest-worker thing is not really much different to how most countries handle non-EU citizens.

Of course my idea will take time but to me there is no quick-fix if you want to change the foundations of the British work-force which to me is by far the sensible approach to the current mess the UK is in. And now is as good a time to start the process but no one in power seems remotely interested in getting the ball rolling; what the hell are you waiting for? It's tough out there, very tough, especially if you're a youngster, but if someone came along with a real genuine coherent long-term strategy then I believe most would sign up for it. A healthy and blanaced economy is surely the best way of dealing with the current issues; banning people and maintaining a shit economy is not. The UK has had 6-7 years of austerity measure in the UK with no real benefit for the working person so why not use similar time frame to put in place a more coherent employment strategy? Maybe the UK has missed the boat?

 

[Simster]

The Turks did not come to Germany as cheap labour. I believe they originally came due to a severe lack of semi-skilled labour in the 60s. And the guest-worker thing is not really much different to how most countries handle non-EU citizens.

Of course my idea will take time but to me there is no quick-fix if you want to change the foundations of the British work-force which to me is by far the sensible approach to the current mess the UK is in. And now is as good a time to start the process but no one in power seems remotely interested in getting the ball rolling; what the hell are you waiting for? It's tough out there, very tough, especially if you're a youngster, but if someone came along with a real genuine coherent long-term strategy then I believe most would sign up for it. A healthy and blanaced economy is surely the best way of dealing with the current issues; banning people and maintaining a shit economy is not.

I'll sign up to that. What do you propose? In the meantime, lets protect OUR less skilled people from being priced out by workers who are here purely for economic reasons and will stomach a low standard of living in the short term.