[Albion] I'm not surprised the criticism is mainly aimed at Potter, but I'm looking at the players

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Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,449
Central Borneo / the Lizard
I'll admit that for the first time I'm wavering on Potter. A month or so back I'd have been happy to keep Potter whatever happened this season, but now, if he is taking us down I would want the change made. So much potential but these last four games was the time to get points on the board and we fluffed it. There is still plenty of time to turn it around and I still want him to be a success, still believe he can be a success, but something has to change. Not Potter yet, but they all need to take a look at themselves and sort it out.

In the most part i think it has to come from the players and his assistants. I have few issues with the selections or tactics, we're creating chances, we're hard to beat, despite lingering set-piece issues, young players are being integrated and some players are clearly improving under his watch, subs usually have a positive impact. The talent is there. But as more and more pundits are pointing out, we lack bite, we lack that edge to get over the line. We cannot hold a lead unless we're two-up or scoring late.

Its time for the players to take more control on the pitch, I don't think its fair to point just at Potter for our lack of 'edge' in critical moments. Ryan has been so disappointing in this regard. Lallana hasn't been the influence we hoped. Gros, Propper and Veltman are experienced but seem quiet. Maupay has fire but is perhaps directing it the wrong way. Dunk needs to take charge more obviously. Potter's two assistants seem quite anonymous, I still couldn't tell you their names or which is which. And then the likes of Bissouma, Burn and Webster have to rise to the challenge of not just playing their game well but dragging everyone else along with them. Only Solly, Welbeck and Connolly seem to be calling people out from my distant vantage point.

Last year our revival seemed to correspond with Duffy, Murray and Stephens getting more time on the pitch, but they weren't good enough any more and it felt right to move them on, but others have to assume their role. White, Alzate and Lamptey have all made defensive mistakes this season, but they're raw and learning and they need more leadership around them.

All teams win games backs to the wall defending a one goal lead, we have to get the fire in us to do that. Should have done that against West Brom and West Ham, and if we don't work out how to do it we will be in trouble. Taking responsibility on the pitch is how these good young players will become great players.
 






Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,449
Central Borneo / the Lizard
Excellent. Another thread on what's wrong.

Its my first one since Potter took charge. And I want to change the conversation from a knee jerk 'get rid of Potter'. I wanted to write a positive thread, but four successive results that should all have been better make it hard. Potter's progression was building to 10 points from the last four games, that's what should have happened. But just three and we can see the pressure is on. I still believe, but by god January has got critical. This is doable though, so much to be positive about under the surface, but we need to room to breathe to be outwardly positive again.
 


Cheshire Cat

The most curious thing..
It is the manager's job to organise what he has available to the best advantage. If he can't he should be replaced by somebody who can.
 


blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
I'll admit that for the first time I'm wavering on Potter. A month or so back I'd have been happy to keep Potter whatever happened this season, but now, if he is taking us down I would want the change made. So much potential but these last four games was the time to get points on the board and we fluffed it. There is still plenty of time to turn it around and I still want him to be a success, still believe he can be a success, but something has to change. Not Potter yet, but they all need to take a look at themselves and sort it out.

In the most part i think it has to come from the players and his assistants. I have few issues with the selections or tactics, we're creating chances, we're hard to beat, despite lingering set-piece issues, young players are being integrated and some players are clearly improving under his watch, subs usually have a positive impact. The talent is there. But as more and more pundits are pointing out, we lack bite, we lack that edge to get over the line. We cannot hold a lead unless we're two-up or scoring late.

Its time for the players to take more control on the pitch, I don't think its fair to point just at Potter for our lack of 'edge' in critical moments. Ryan has been so disappointing in this regard. Lallana hasn't been the influence we hoped. Gros, Propper and Veltman are experienced but seem quiet. Maupay has fire but is perhaps directing it the wrong way. Dunk needs to take charge more obviously. Potter's two assistants seem quite anonymous, I still couldn't tell you their names or which is which. And then the likes of Bissouma, Burn and Webster have to rise to the challenge of not just playing their game well but dragging everyone else along with them. Only Solly, Welbeck and Connolly seem to be calling people out from my distant vantage point.

Last year our revival seemed to correspond with Duffy, Murray and Stephens getting more time on the pitch, but they weren't good enough any more and it felt right to move them on, but others have to assume their role. White, Alzate and Lamptey have all made defensive mistakes this season, but they're raw and learning and they need more leadership around them.

All teams win games backs to the wall defending a one goal lead, we have to get the fire in us to do that. Should have done that against West Brom and West Ham, and if we don't work out how to do it we will be in trouble. Taking responsibility on the pitch is how these good young players will become great players.

Ha ha, yeh, this is pretty bad. After a year and a half you'd have thought one of them would have done a post match interview, or done something to raise their profile. Not asking them to dress up as Freddie Mercury and sing to a packed Grand Avenue or anything
 




Stat Brother

Well-known member
NSC Patron
Jul 11, 2003
73,888
West west west Sussex
Ohhhh this'll keep the Long Post Police happy. :lol:
 




Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Ha ha, yeh, this is pretty bad. After a year and a half you'd have thought one of them would have done a post match interview, or done something to raise their profile. Not asking them to dress up as Freddie Mercury and sing to a packed Grand Avenue or anything

Im pretty sure that post match interviews according to PL rules (or PL - TV company contracts) must be carried out by the manager/head coach. Did Paul Trollope and Paul Nevin do a lot of media?
 








blue-shifted

Banned
Feb 20, 2004
7,645
a galaxy far far away
Im pretty sure that post match interviews according to PL rules (or PL - TV company contracts) must be carried out by the manager/head coach. Did Paul Trollope and Paul Nevin do a lot of media?

Or pre match interviews or open a supermarket or start a fight with the opposing physio

We've never had more anonymous assistant managers

Not that anonymity is necessarily bad. Not slating it. Very possibly they are really good at what they do, but all the other assistant managers, including the ones you mentioned, you sort of have an idea of what they bring to the party
 




BNthree

Plastic JCL
Sep 14, 2016
11,457
WeHo
Having slept on it I’ve come to the conclusion the problem is to do with the psychology and dynamic of the team (the confidence is another way of putting it). Which given Potter’s often remarked upon master’s degree in emotional intelligence is a pretty strange thing to happen.

We’ve seen the players perform much better than they have recently and beat teams we wouldn’t have thought we could previously.

So what is causing the slump? Would love to know what is happening behind closed doors at the club.
 


Bry Nylon

Test your smoke alarm
Helpful Moderator
Jul 21, 2003
20,575
Playing snooker
Would love to know what is happening behind closed doors at the club.

jack.jpg
 


LamieRobertson

Not awoke
Feb 3, 2008
48,428
SHOREHAM BY SEA
Or pre match interviews or open a supermarket or start a fight with the opposing physio

We've never had more anonymous assistant managers

Not that anonymity is necessarily bad. Not slating it. Very possibly they are really good at what they do, but all the other assistant managers, including the ones you mentioned, you sort of have an idea of what they bring to the party

I don’t even know the majority of assistant managers in the Pl ... my knowledge or generally anonymous
 






Swansman

Pro-peace
May 13, 2019
22,320
Sweden
Having slept on it I’ve come to the conclusion the problem is to do with the psychology and dynamic of the team (the confidence is another way of putting it). Which given Potter’s often remarked upon master’s degree in emotional intelligence is a pretty strange thing to happen.

We’ve seen the players perform much better than they have recently and beat teams we wouldn’t have thought we could previously.

So what is causing the slump? Would love to know what is happening behind closed doors at the club.

A masters degree in emotional intelligence doesnt mean you are automatically able to change poor self-confidence. Even if someone suicidal goes to the psychologist for x years its still not uncommon that they eventually kill themselves, or if we take a less heavy example, if someone feels bad they might still feel bad despite getting all the help in the world.

As for "what happens behind closed doors", not much of the gritty tabloid shit people are hoping for, would be my guess. If someone ****ed up in a bad manner, Potter would exclude them from the squad. He did it with one of his best players in ÖFK and then later with his starting keeper in ÖFK and I think he would do it again, you are allowed to try and fail but you are not allowed to be a bad influence on the squad.
 


CliveWalkerWingWizard

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2006
2,689
surrenden
So the argument is that the youngsters have to step up and be leaders? How about the manger/head coach step up and be a leader ?
 


macbeth

Dismembered
Jan 3, 2018
4,174
six feet beneath the moon
Having slept on it I’ve come to the conclusion the problem is to do with the psychology and dynamic of the team (the confidence is another way of putting it). Which given Potter’s often remarked upon master’s degree in emotional intelligence is a pretty strange thing to happen.

We’ve seen the players perform much better than they have recently and beat teams we wouldn’t have thought we could previously.

So what is causing the slump? Would love to know what is happening behind closed doors at the club.

There's only so much he can do, degree or not. I do agree that it's probably a confidence issue, but I think this is just explained by the fact that we're in a bit of a rut now, can't buy a win for toffee and eventually that's going to get the team down. Regardless of what's said in post match interviews, I don't think any of the players will be satisfied with the result against Sheffield United, or surrendering the lead twice against West Ham. Particularly since it seems like we have a quieter, less fiery bunch of players these days, I think a dip in mood is to be expected, but its only going to be solved by winning games.

It then comes back to why we aren't doing that. Ignore the recent games, I think they've been exacerbated by the low confidence in the squad. Think back to those other games, United, West Brom, where we absolutely should've won, but we didn't. What are the two factors that cropped up time and time again when we were dissecting those results? Poor game management and (mostly) the strikers not being up to scratch. That is remedied either by buying better players, or getting a new manager, and one of those options is much more attractive than the other.
 




Kalimantan Gull

Well-known member
Aug 13, 2003
13,449
Central Borneo / the Lizard
So the argument is that the youngsters have to step up and be leaders? How about the manger/head coach step up and be a leader ?

It's an argument, yes. We need leaders on the pitch and someone has to step up and do it.

I don't deny Potter has his part to play too - the most obvious was West Brom when we could probably have accepted being under the cosh and seen it out, but he tried to change things and retake control of the game, which meant White being one of a defensive two, rather than a three, and he didn't get tight enough and they scored. I admired what he tried to do at the time, but in hindsight just sticking to our shape and clearing everything thrown at us was what most managers would have done and getting an unimpressive 1-0 over the line would have been very valuable in the long run.

So there's that. But leaders on the pitch is essential, whoever that might be.
 


beorhthelm

A. Virgo, Football Genius
Jul 21, 2003
36,019
Having slept on it I’ve come to the conclusion the problem is to do with the psychology and dynamic of the team (the confidence is another way of putting it). Which given Potter’s often remarked upon master’s degree in emotional intelligence is a pretty strange thing to happen.

We’ve seen the players perform much better than they have recently and beat teams we wouldn’t have thought we could previously.

So what is causing the slump? Would love to know what is happening behind closed doors at the club.

i would suggest a degree here could be a hindrance, applying theory out of place, players not responding as expected and not changing accordingly.
 


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